Sammy Watkins' Rib

That was my exact line of thinking and why I was pulling for the Bucs. Brady wins and he remains the GOAT. Nothing changes. Mahomes wins and we have to suffer through crap about how Mahomes is going to be the new GOAT now after just suffering through 20 years of Brady.

Stafford is a terrible example. He's been in Detroit for like 10 years. Maybe even more. And it is a mutual break up between Stafford and the Lions. I do recall people giving Eli grief over the Manning's forcing a trade.

You can't think that Mahomes is >>>> Allen after last nights game can you? How does last nights game not prove that Mahomes has benefited from a superior roster his three years in KC? He gets rattled and rolls all over the playing hero ball just like Allen does when under immense pressure. He still made nice throws under pressure. Unfortunately none of them were caught. But we routinely see Allen make nice throws under pressure as well. Especially all the toe tappers on the sideline. Mahmoes is likely better still all things equal but that gap is miniscule now. And the gap seems to be closing every year. Allen has always been a year or two behind in his development vs. his peers.

The defense was the better unit last night. They totally dominated. But I don't know how you single out one player from that unit for MVP. That is why Brady won it.

I recall Zerovoltz on here before we played the AFCCG. He said quite clearly the way to beat the Chiefs defense is to utilize the RB's and TE's in the passing game. Basically play a game that the Bills and Josh Allen don't play. Our offensive philosophy and personnel plays directly into the Chiefs defensive strengths. The RB's and TE's for the Bucs accounted for 139 or the 201 total receiving yards. And of course Fournette and Rondald Jones ran the ball well too. When the Bills played the Chiefs in the Championship Game we only had 92 of our teams total 287 passing yards to the RB's and TE's. Even 92 seems high for us. Not sure how many were in garbage time. To make matters worst for the Chiefs last night, Brady has made a HOF career throwing to backs and tight ends. Wonder if the Chiefs will be changing up their defensive personnel in the off-season to fix their flaw? Even if they do, given Brady's success over the last two decades it would be to our benefit to get more out of our RB's and TE's. So that is one half of the problem. Not sure how we figure out the other half given how we were taken to the woodshed twice by the KC offense this year. Meanwhile the Bucs dominated the Chiefs offense for 7 out of 8 quarters this year.

I think it is only like $10 million which makes it interesting. His new contract doesn't really kick in till the following year where he would be losing like $30 million. As has been pointed out, Palmer sat out or retired with $80 million in the bank. So far Watson has only netted about half that amount. I don't think money is an issue this year. But next year it could be.

It's not just about rings. Those help but Brady checks nearly every box on the GOAT list. Stats- Check MVP's- Check Regular Season Wins- Check Post Season Wins- Check Super Bowl Wins-Check Longevity- Check With Brady saying he might play beyond 45 who knows if anyone will ever catch him. The guy is still playing at a top 10 level at 43.

Cousins for back up QB!

Can't really tell if you are saying this in jest or not. Their 2020 seasons statistically were a wash. Really no significant difference in QBR or Passer Rating. And Allen was the obvious chose over Mahomes in terms of added value to his team relative to the supporting cast each player had. I'm glad at least a handful of voters gave Allen their first place votes.

Or Nelson Agholor. Basically which ever of the three we will be able to afford.

Yeah Mahomes was a monster last year. Lead the entire league in passer rating on 3rd and 10+ with a 122 rating. A little bit different story this year for Mahomes though where I think Allen over took him. I did hear someone say Mahomes lead the league in rushing first downs on 3rd and 10+ though or 3rd and 13+. So that could raise the QBR. But yeah, basically both QB's have been consistently very good on 3rd and long. Not a big surprise with their mobility and big arms.

Zero, where do you find this QBR stat for Mahomes? I'd like to see what Allen's QBR is for the same situation. And 3rd and 10+. You may have seen my other posts on the same topic showing that Allen, like Mahomes, is one of the best in the league on 3rd and 10+. But I don't have QBR. Just passer rating and first down conversion rate.

Yep. And it's because the talent gap between the two has greatly diminished to the point where the rest of the pieces make up the primary difference. And this really isn't just a Mahomes vs. Allen thing. Pretty much all the current top 4-5 QBs in the NFL are close enough in talent that the team really becomes the deciding factor.

As he should. He's not as big as Allen. Look at Murray in comparison to Watson or Mahomes. The bigger the athlete the less agility and acceleration they have. I think Allen is a freak when it comes to athletic ability for a guy his size. Mahomes is an athlete himself but in a different way then Allen. A fair comparison size wise for Allen is Newton. I think Allen shows just a bit more agility and acceleration than Newton.

I'll take Allen. Not just because he's "my guy". But also because I like where he is trending. We've possibly seen the best from Mahomes already. He's not likely to ever have a better supporting cast. IMO we could swap QB's now and it wouldn't have changed a thing other than we would be watching Allen and the Chiefs getting ready to play the Bucs tomorrow. Mahomes by a billion? If we are talking about career accomplishments then yes. No doubt. But the idea of "Allen having caught Mahomes" is not about career accomplishments. It's about is he on the same talent level at this moment in time? Would GM's take Allen over Mahomes today because they think that talent gap has narrowed enough and Allen is likely to hit his pre-draft ceiling? GM's that like Allen are looking at his resume and seeing that he has taken giants leaps forward every year, but up a 2020 season on par with Mahomes despite having a clear personnel disadvantage. Taking that information and projecting it to the future.

Not going by total stats. Going by two efficiency metrics. QBR and passer rating. Totals do not matter. But if we want to dive into totals... Allen only played a half against Miami in week 16 and had three TD's in that half. He played about half the fourth quarter against both New England and Denver. I believe Mahomes lead the NFL in interceptable passes thrown this year? Would have to double check that but thought I read that stat somewhere. And I don't know what the number is between Mahomes vs Allen but I would be absolutely shocked if Mahomes had more dropped/called back TD's then Allen did this year. And then of course there are the 9 rushing/receiving TD's from Allen this year.

LOL. What? You're a Chiefs fan! I always assumed your avatar was just maybe a player you really liked or an image you liked. For some reason never made the connection. I mean you don't seem to post as much about the Chiefs as Zerovoltz unless I haven't been paying attention enough.

We need to hope that Kelce starts to age quickly. Most TE's are able to play deep into their 30's but there is a production decline that starts around the age of 33 from looking at the stats of guys like Witten and Tony G. Gronk's decline started much earlier but he was always banged up. Kelce, 31, likely has at least two more all-pro years in him. Hopefully no more after that though. I agree that Diggs and Hill are probably a wash or very close to it. But Kelce >>>Beasley. Kelce is the difference. He's nearly unstoppable. He may have lead the league in receiving this year if he played in the final game.

Hopefully this is the year we find that playmaker in the draft. I think that is the only place we will find him. Doubtful in free agency. The one guy in free agency i would look at maybe his Curtis Samuel. To be fair to Beane, the Bills 2020 roster was still really good. Most years in the past it's probably good enough to get you to the Super Bowl. Or at least not blown out in the conference title game. Teams don't typically have two talents like Hill and Kelce to go along with already strong rosters. It'd be like the Patriots when they had Moss and Welker trading in Welker for a prime Gronk to pair with Moss.

Not at all. Allen's trajectory has always been a year or two behind the other top QB's. This has been pretty much true since his days in Firebaugh. Take Allen's MVP level breakout season for instance in year three. Going back to Wentz, the trend has been players breaking out in year 2. Wentz, Mahomes, Jackson. Even lesser QB's like Goff, Turbitzky and Murray probably had bigger year two breakouts then Allen's year two breakout. Allen broke out in year 3. A good part of that definitely had to do with the acquisition of Diggs. At the same time we shouldn't give all the credit to Diggs, Brown and Beasley for Allen's improvement from his rookie year with Curly, Moe and Larry. Diggs, Brown and Beasley all had career years with Allen. Definitely a mutual relationship. My point is this if I can sum it up: The talent gap is narrowed enough between the two that at this point, it is the rosters that puts one QB over the other in terms of team success. Such is life. Peyton was the better QB over Brady for probably their first 5-6 years of their careers but Peyton never sniffed a super bowl in that time span. I don't know that Josh would have been anywhere close to Mahomes 2018 numbers had he started with KC's roster. Allen still needed more time to develop. But definitely his numbers would be a lot better than his first two years with the Bills. But by year three for Allen the gap between the two has certainly narrowed enough where factors outside the QB play a more prominent role in team success. In terms of pure statistical success for the QB's, 2020 alone, it's essentially a wash. Their regular season stats were virtually identical by both QBR and passer rating efficiency metrics, about a point in favor of Mahomes for each.

Nobody is denying Mahomes doesn't get the best out of these players. The point though is Mahomes HAS these players. Allen didn't have a single one until this year. Now he has one, Mahomes has had two for his entire career. Roberts also has 7 receptions for about 60 yards and 0TD's in two years with the Bills. Not exactly Hill numbers with Alex Smith.

So you think he wouldn't have developed into an all-pro WR without Mahomes? He had a great second year. For a receiver who was playing RB at Oklahoma State just a few years prior. Sorry if I mislead you. The guy was a stud with all-pro talent before Mahomes threw passes to him. That's the point I a making.

I'm aware he was a first team all pro return specialist in 2016. His 2017 year was really good. In only 13 starts and 15 games played...75 receptions 1,1183 yards 7TDs 15.8 avg (2nd highest of his career). We can split hairs if we want but the dude made himself before Mahomes IMO. Not to mention isn't the saying always that it takes a few years for WR's to really produce at the NFL level? He was only in his second year in 2017 and broke out in that second year.

If Allen brings us a Super Bowl. Yes.

I don't think it should so easily be discounted. Those two weapons were both first team all-pro's before Mahomes ever threw a pass to either one. Mahomes put the Chiefs team over the top. No question. But both Kelce and Hill had put themselves individually over the top before Mahomes became the starter. That's really the whole point of the debate. Allen has not had a weapon like Hill or Kelce until this season. Now he has one in Diggs and boom MVP caliber season from Allen. Mahomes has had two his entire career. Projecting both players careers into the future, it's possible but very unlikely Mahomes will ever play with more talent then he has had these last three years. It's more conceivable that Allen could play with more talent. What is unclear at this time is if that talent gap closes or even flip flops will the W/L and statistical outcomes change?