Tampa Bob

True. They could definitely play better. Maybe it's because AP threatens to whip the defender's children if they tackle him.

I earned a 1 week "vacation" from the boards for my views on fred jackson so I learned my lesson and I am not touching that one again...lol. Regardless, I'm not sure that there is much more fred and cj can do when everybody knows exactly when and where we are going to run...it's too obvious and easy to stop. Just to add, one could argue that the lack of success of our rbs could tie back to manuel. When he doesn't scare anybody, opponents can plan to stop the run and dare ej to beat them.

And race has any relevance to this thread how?

Well said and thanks for going against your instincts and agreeing with me! No matter what others say, there is no possible way that I can get myself to accept the fact that manuel slid because he is trying to avoid an injury and feel good about him as a leader of this team. For me, that was one of the most pathetic plays I have seen in all my years of watching football and I don't need to see anything else from manuel because I am pretty sure that he will never be great. Great qbs just don't do that in their second year when they are trying to establish themselves as a leader and turn around a losing culture. This is tackle football for crying out loud and he is 240-250 pounds. I don't disagree with the concept of sliding...but there has to be nothing to lose by doing it. If there is a first down within reason, he needs to get it.

I saw that play and it was nice. Problem is that the other play happened and when he had to think about what to do (because there was nobody around him), he took the slide instead of "fighting" for an easy first down. The other play was all instinct. He had no time to process what was going on and he made a nice play. It almost makes the slide worse for me because he has the physical tools, but he chose not to use them on the slide. We needed a spark. Our qb lowering his shoulder to make a play could do that.

Thank you. It is a simple point, but because disagreeing with me is the new cool thing to do, people can't see it. He was preached as a big strong qb. Plan and simple. That was a fact. Nix and whaley and everybody said that when we drafted him. The very basic point of this thread is that play proves he does not play like one. I expect my big strong qb to not be soft. There was no guarantee that we were going to pick up the first on the next two plays. If he has a chance to get a first, he really needs to take it. People want to bring up being smart and not getting injured. The cleveland game was a completely different situation. He had the first. He had nothing to gain by dangling his leg along the sideline in traffic. That was a dumb play and he was lucky not to get his knee blown out. This play was a qb that was thinking too much, not being aware of the situation and slid to avoid a hit. He had plenty of room to pick up the first. And if he didn't, lower his shoulder and act like a big strong qb once and a while. What good is having a big strong qb if he is scared to make a play with his big strong body? Everyone remember the qb that we all love to make fun of for being soft? Trent? Remember that play against kc when he lowered his shoulder for the td before the half one game? If he can do it once and a while, ej has no excuses.

I was watching this game with my neighbor and he was making fun of ej like crazy after that slide. He was like, what is he doing? Didn't he want the first down? Lol.

Does this upset you? I have to ask...why does it upset you so much?

I wouldn't really call it fighting for extra yards. The yards were there. He just chose not to take them. And in a game where they couldnt do anything offensively, I would like to see my qb put a little more effort into it. He could pull a hammy by sliding so screw injuries. Fear of injury shouldn't control his game. He can take hits if he is smart about it. Wilson is tiny and takes tons if hits.

I always hear about how big and strong our qb is. Yet, sunday he had a scramble where he slid 2 yards before the first down marker when he easily could have run a little harder and got the first down. That was a really bad sign for me. It looks like he was scared to get hit. What's the point of a big, strong qb if he plays like a small, weak one?

And the point of this comment was? Oh right because when people disagree with my opinions, they insult me. Gotcha. Thanks big man.

Ok, you win too. It's great. Somewhere you guys seem to think I am blaming the defense for the loss, the offense was terrible. I thought the defense was soft today. It was nowhere near as aggressive as what I saw the last 2 weeks. But, you both convinced me otherwise. It was lights out all day.

Ok, you win. The defense was great today.

Aside from a couple long runs in each game, none of our rbs have done much all year. It might have something to do with EVERYBODY knowing exactly when and where we are going to run ALL THE TIME!

How about his scramble when he slid 2 yards before the first down marker fairly late in the game? That was it for me. It would be nice to see him play with a little more fire than that once and a while. That was such a soft play by our "big, strong qb." He easily would have had a first if he simply dove or took the hit. That made me think that he is still thinking about last year's injuries to me. Bad stuff.

My statement was more of a general statement about the whole team being soft. The defense didn't allow a crazy amount of points, but they couldn't get off the field for most of the game and their receivers were wide open all day. Simple screen passes going for 15-20 yards, rivers running for 9 on third down, etc. The offense was more pathetic though.

If EJ plays scared and shaky again during the first half and we are down, then yes, orton needs to play. We can't lose to houston. If we are going to have a shot at a wild card, we have to beat teams like houston. I expect fitz to tear us up though. He used to put together a random good game here and there with us and he is going to be ready to go next week. We have decent wide receivers and they have to be involved. If EJ refuses to look for them again, he needs to sit down for the rest of the game. If EJ plays scared and shaky again during the first half and we are down, then yes, orton needs to play. We can't lose to houston. If we are going to have a shot at a wild card, we have to beat teams like houston. I expect fitz to tear us up though. He used to put together a random good game here and there with us and he is going to be ready to go next week. We have decent wide receivers and they have to be involved. If EJ refuses to look for them again, he needs to sit down for the rest of the game.

I have a feeling it isn't going to matter. This team is still soft. They are weak mentally...came out flat with no intensity. How could that be? That were 2-0 with a chance to make a statement against a good team, but not a scary one. This wasn't one of the great offenses of NE from a few years ago. The chargers didn't really do anything special. They were on their 3rd RB. How many screen passes did we have nobody within 20 yards? Run, run, incomplete all day. Eventually teams are going to realize that we run it up the middle on every first down and most second downs.

Only with your mom

Nah. I'll stay here for a while. You know I'm right and that upsets you. Fred was horrible today and you know that there is a lot more of this to come. He'll have his rare decent run like last week, but I think today shows his age is catching up with him. He went down as soon as anyone touched him today.

Fred must have left his jockstrap at home today. Terrible game for him. 12 for 24...yikes. Expect more like this from him this year. Maybe spiller can finally get on the field in the red zone if jackson keeps sucking terribly. Silly to leave the best player on the sideline when we can't even score in the red zone.

Fred's enormous heart was on full display today. His heart and soul grinded out 24 yards on 12 carries! Ouch! Even though he seemed to fall down the second anyone touched him, I still think he was beastly! Go jackson! I love you!

Man! Jackson is beastly today...he's really tearing it up. I think we need to keep giving it to him in the red zone and keep spiller on the bench during those moments. Also on third and short, he is money!

If you live in this area and can't find anything great about it, you must be a miserable person. And why is it hard to believe I am from buffalo? Because I didn't like it?

There was a huge log jam near the pirate ship in the stadium...that drove me crazy. There are definitely some dumpy areas like any city. But the outskirts of tampa are booming and you can get a brand new house in a great school district for the price of a house built in the early 80's that needs a shitload of work in Williamsville. Plus no state income taxes and gas prices are 3.15.