DriveFor1Outta5

I'm ok with that line of thought. I just don't think you need the number 1 or 2 pick to build a winner. Franchises like the Packers and the Cowboys built themselves soild long term hopes while still winning. They never had number one or two draft choices. They just made soild team building decisions, and continued to be winners.

That makes sense. I just believe that with the number one pick teams miss out a lot. The NFL draft is supposed to create parody. It doesn't really work that way all the time. More often than not the same bottom feeder teams are the top of the draft board. The great franchises remain great with late round picks. That's why I'm not ever going to blame this playoff drought on poor draft position.

If you can't "miss out" how come we didn't draft Wilson,Dalton,Cousins or Prescott? Teams miss out all the time. Drafting a QB number one overall is no guarantee. Plenty of people thought that David Carr and Ryan Lead would never be a bust. Otherwise they wouldn't have been drafted number one overall. Player evaluation is not a perfect science. The majority of great NFL QB's were not drafted number one overall. That is the way it worked worked back in the 70s and 80s. It's simply no longer true. The Bills need to actually draft QB's in order to find one. We aren't missing out because we win a few games. We miss out because our front office is a joke. The Browns win less than we do, and their joke of franchise can't get it right either.

We are on the same page. It's just a matter of semantics. If the franchise feels that TT is not the future this does leave them desperate at the QB position. If TT leaves than this franchise should feel desperate for a QB. The key is not acting out of desperation to draft a high round guy this season. If they think Cardale is the future they will know better by the end of 2017 season. These are desperate times, but it's important not to act out of desperation.

No one knows that a lot of the guys will become the best players. That's the problem with "tanking". You don't guarantee yourself all that much with top 5 picks in the NFL. Look at where many of the best QB's in the game were drafted. It's quite often not with top 5 picks. As far as Dareus is concerned we did already have Kyle Williams, and if I recall our receivers were a joke. Hindsight is 20/20 though. I'm not criticizing the Dareus selection. The entire team was "bereft" of talent in 2011. I'm just saying that if you claim the four wins in 2010 hurt this franchise that's simplifying matters too much. We didn't get Von Miller but there were a few great players selected after him. So imo you can't really blame those wins for our misfortunes.

I just don't think you start Cardale with the intent of winning games. It's widely known that Cardale is viewed as a project QB. There is no one in the league who thought that Cardale would be ready to start in his second season. I don't think that opinion has changed, and I'm sure even the Bills know this. Cardale was a mid round draft choice who has nothing more than "potential". He had a good national championship run and got replaced by JT Barrett the next season. There is nothing other than a big arm that says he has anything it takes to be a franchise QB.

The problem is that besides optimistic Bills fans I don't think anyone else views Cardale as a potential franchise QB. He's a major project who they were afraid to even play in a meaningless season finale. Most football people outside of Bills and OSU fans would agree the best hope is that he becomes a competent backup. I do see parrells between 2013 and this offseason if we let TT go. However, they may very go with Cardale and wait until the next draft for a QB selection. If they force themselves to draft a QB this season it will be like 2013 because it is desperation at the wrong time. This isn't the draft to find a savior at QB.

For anyone who thought he had actually matured the running onto the field at St.Joes's episode really hurt. That was the final straw that broke the camels back imo.

This is the problem with people who think tanking makes sense in the NFL. Sure we won 4 meaningless games but we still had the number three pick. We got Dareus out of it. If you feel we needed to do better guys drafted after Dareus included Julio Jones, JJ Watt, and AJ Green. You don't always need a top 5 pick to build a team. You just need a good front office. The idea of "purgatory" is just a phrase created by this franchise to cover for their incompetence. We still could have had Julio Jones,JJ Watt, or AJ Green if you don't like Dareus.Receiver was a need at the time as well, but this team never seems to draft for need. That's an entirely separate philosophical debate though.

I know. I'd like to know the total cost of all improvements made to the stadium since 1998. It reminds me of someone holding on to an old car while spending thousands on repairs. Thousands that could have covered the cost of a new car when it's all said and done.

How did Whaley build the first playoff roster since 1999 if you don't think that TT can win a playoff without luck? I don't think that you can criticize the QB position, and still claim that Whaley built a playoff roster. Whaley didn't build a playoff roster if it was missing a compotnent as important as QB. I know TT was a Rex guy but Whaley didn't give this roster anything else at the position. IMO this was not a playoff roster at all. The receiver and safety depth was a joke. Too many major holes to be a playoff team. I'm not a Rex fan, but this wasn't a playoff roster.

I disagree. If the Pegula's were willing to oversee a "tank" season he should have been fired before the season. Don't tank seasons usually happen when a new GM comes in and to rebuild? Whaley already had his chance. He couldn't build a winning team. Now he seems to think the best solution is to tear apart and rebuild. Why should we trust him to be the one to rebuild when he wants to destroy everything he created himself? It doesn't make sense to me. Plus I constantly I have a question I ask on this board. How exactly does tanking benefit a team in the NFL? I don't understand. One guy aside from QB doesn't save an NFL franchise. QB's are never a guarantee regardless of how high you draft one. Look at where a lot of the best QB's were drafted. They aren't all too 10 picks. This theory that mediocrity has hurt us is nothing but an excuse for the ineptitude of the front office.

This entire franchise would be a joke if they really think "tanking" to this extent works in the NFL. Regardless of who plays QB, why would you ever consider trading Sammy and/or LeSean to "build a team". This works in a sport like baseball, but not in the NFL. With Sammy and LeSean on the team they are just a QB away or TT playing a little better away from the playoffs. Who's to say that a third or fourth round QB couldn't turn out to be great and take us to the playoffs? Without Watkins and McCoy no one could. Trading both those guys away would give us some more draft picks. That still doesn't guarantee finding a franchise QB or even increase the odds that much. In football you keep your best players on the team. It's not like baseball where you trade away guys for 10 prospects each like the Florida Marlins did a couple times over the years. This is how they built two World Series Champions, and Russ Brandon was there for it.

It could make sense to some to dump Watkins because he might bolt. If this is what happens it means that Whaley should have been dumped this off season as well. Whaley built a team that was supposed to showcase Watkins as the center piece. If Whaley starts Cardale and trades Watkins it means that the team he built failed. Usually when a team "tanks" it is with a new GM. They are tanking because the last GM failed. Why the h*** would anyone trust Whaley to rebuild after tanking? If he got us to the point of desperation where we felt "tanking" is the only way to rebuild, why would he be the guy to help rebuild the franchise? Exactly. Wouldn't you build around Sammy? If this really happens I give up on the Pegula's as owners. They would become our own version of Daniel Snyder in my eyes. Before everyone attacks me for the Snyder comparison, I make it clear I don't feel that way now. However, if Cardale started and Sammy got traded I will have lost every ounce of respect I had left for this sad organization.

I agree. This team doesn't have enough leadership and is full of "me first" type players. Then everyone wonders why we can't even sniff the playoffs.

The only ranking I care about are the final standings, and team playoff success. I couldn't care less where Shady wants to be ranked or where PFF wants to rank our guys.

Exactly, both sides look stupid on these type of issues imo. It's sensationalism at his best. We live in a world that is very good at creating something out of nothing. I feel like the mass media sensationalizes stories like this to divert people from worrying about real issues that actually impact all of our day to day lives. The NFL is problem doing so for similar reasons. Any publicity is good publicity. As far as the question of whether or not I care? I don't care what the NFL wants either way. The only part of your argument that doesn't work is the third bathroom idea. That isn't what they want, and that would only create a greater stir.

Exactly. "Tanking" in the NFL makes no sense. I think too many Bills fans have trouble differentiating football from hockey. How do you "tank" ?. The idea of tanking this year would be to get Darnold. How do you guarantee the number one pick? We could "tank" and end up missing out anyway. Plus NFL QBs aren't as sure things as basketball or hockey number ones. You also still need to build a team. How is the Sabres tank working out so far?

I see a few people suggesting the drafting of a first round QB while keeping TT around. Salary cap aside I don't think that there is anyway you can do that. TT is not an elite QB at the end of his career where we are drafting a replacement. TT is in the prime of his career and wants to be a starter. The drafting of a round one QB is the writing on the wall that he would be on his way out. I don't see how this would benefit the team at this point. It's highly unlikely that we'll see anything more from TT this season than years past. Try getting to mid season with a below 500 record and a struggling passing game. The calls for the rookie to play will grow louder every week. I believe that TT could be a serviceable starter in the proper situation. However, this is a 500 or below team. Ultimately the QB gets blamed for the teams record regardless of how they are playing. This is why I think you either draft an early round QB or you have to commit to TT for at least this season. Putting a first round pick behind TT is only setting him up to be benched this season. There is no reason to keep him in that case. I have no problem with drafting a mid to late round guy. It wouldn't give the message that TT is on his way out. Personally I don't like this years draft class enough to draft a first round QB. If the Bills disagree with my sentiment than I don't see why they'd keep TT.

Good point and it's one that I was waiting for someone to mention. The Baseball HOF has been doing this for years. It actually has little to do with the type of teammate TO was, and they don't care about players off the field transgressions either. What the media cares about is how they feel the player treated them. There are members of the media who took a personal dislike to TO. They feel as if he didn't give them the respect they deserve. They are going to punish him by denying him the honor of being a first ballot hall of famer. Think about how the media portrays athletes. The so called "good guys" are always the ones who are polite and available to the media. This is how Derek Jeter's nice guy reputation gets elevated to sainthood by the media, and it's how Roethlisberger will be a first ballot hall of famer regardless of all the dirt that's out there on him. The media are people who hold grudges just like the average person on the street.

Idk I think a lot of people believe this type of pop music has polluted actual country music into extinction.

I figured we all already know the flaws to his game Accuracy,tendancy to run too soon,footwork,turnovers, and learning a pro offense. I was just pointing out some issues that made me worry about his maturity and ability to lead an NFL franchise. These things are not out of bounds. NFL scouts dig way deeper than twitter. Everything matters both on and off the field when you draft a QB. Intangibles are such a huge part of being a successful QB that these things become important. No one will ever convince me that a guy talking about cashing in a big paycheck multiple times before even being drafted is a good look. Once again kudos to him for excelling in the national championship game. He did succeed in the biggest spot for a college football player, but once again this indicates nothing regarding his pro career. How many unsuccessful pro QB's won national championships? There are tons of them.

It's not just the $ emoji that scares me off. It's his play on the field that I don't think will translate to the NFL combined with the tweet. The tweet in and of itself isn't a big deal, but combined with my lack of confidence in Watson it sealed the deal for me. This is not a guy I want. The QB is the face of your franchise. I want my QB to demonstrate maturity, and a desire to succeed above all else. I have to question both of these things when a guy is tweeting about money before even being drafted. He hasn't done a thing to earn his NFL money yet. He should be focused on winning a Super Bowl, and then he can brag about the cash that he actually EARNED. NCAA championships mean nothing as to how the QB will perform in the pros. So, yes I don't care that he won the title this year.

Kizer and Trubisky are both far better at being pocket passers than Watson. Pure pocket passers may be few and far between in college these days, but I think you want to look for a guy who shows he can demonstrate those traits. Sam Darnold will be in next years as well. College teams are moving to spread offenses in big numbers, but they don't all run them. I'd prefer a QB who wasn't essentially the point guard distributing the ball to receivers who were mismatches for every defense they played. That's the story of Watson imo. Tajh Boyd looked pretty great at times in that Clemson offense as well. He was in a similar situation having guys like Watkins and Hopkins to throw to. Watson just has become a hotter pro prospect because he won a title. Plenty of scouting reports we're calling him a mid round prospect or second and third round before Clemson won it all. The NFL is a QB hungry league and QB values have been being inflating insanely. This happens every year around draft time. Now I can only hope Whaley doesn't go crazy trying to pick up Watson.

That's fine. I never said he isn't a great guy. I just worry that he could be concerned with style over substance. The guy has done nothing but win at Clemson, and he deserves credit for it. I just don't like the face of my franchise bragging about how he's about to cash in. It's political, you know nothing about my life to throw that kind of crap at me. You are right, a QB who displays some of his traits make me uncomfortable that we won't win a championship. I do in fact do want my QB to look like Brady or Wilson as far as demeanor and play style. I want a QB that has traits championship QB's have.