BringBackOrton

But if we are competitive in two/three years, even if we only just miss the playoffs two years in a row, I say keep the train rolling and see what we can do starting with a foundation and not a rebuilding bottomless pit of turnover craze. I understand, but it will be decided on the manner in which we miss the playoffs. We need to be more like the 2017 Chargers than the 2017 Bills (if the Ravens won that game). Standard elite players being paid elite value, but within context and reason and not stupidly overbloated contracts to guys like Dareus, TT, or Clay, as exciting as they are at the time. I'm absolutely fine with not having the cap space if we also appropriately pay our elite talent. So there's the rub. All three of those contracts were justified. Dareus was coming off a season where he was a top 2 DT in football. The lack of morality/suspension clauses was dumb, but he earned that contract. And as much schitt as I give Whaley for the Clay contract, this team desperately needed TE help in a league where there are like 10 good ones. And unfortunately, for good players, you need to overpay in FA. It's the nature of the game. Clay is still something like the 12-14th best TE, and there are a handful of guys WAY worse than him making more or comparable. More on TT below. I agree extending Bortles was a terrible move and they should have addressed it - but looking at it with perspective: after reaching the conference finals, it's not easy to commit to a first round draft pick and start the whole thing over when your defense likely wouldn't be there in three years. I don't think extending Bortles was so bad. The Jags hands were pretty much tied, you don't boot a QB who just took your team deep into the playoffs with no other option. But THAT'S the problem. They had no other option. Look at the Pats, the Steelers, the Giants, the Saints ,the Chiefs (in 2017). All of the them have QB's whose days as starters are numbered and they ALL have dedicated resources to shoring up the QB position behind them. The Jaguars (and Bills) haven't done that. When we entered the 2017 season, we knew TT was on his last legs as a starter unless he drastically improved. Nothing. When the Jags entered the 2018 season, they knew they gave Bortles a bridge deal because he wasn't really proven. Nothing. There was nothing wrong with TT's contract escapades. He was our starter, played well in spots and having control of when he left was infinitely valuable. The problem was not preparing for his eventual departure which we all saw coming. It's why I don't believe that McD's "hands were tied" not drafting a QB in 2017. He KNEW TT was most likely gone. His contract was going to start negatively impacting the Bills and he had proved nothing. He punted, which resulted in him having to throw our new QB to the wolves. The line between "bloated contracts" and "have to pay good players" is really dependent on if your team's ceiling is 9-7 or 13-3. The difference between 9-7 and 13-3 is usually a serviceable QB versus a good one. Not taking a QB in 2017 will haunt the McBeane regime unless Allen is a hit, and even then may still loom large over them. I don't want to face an experienced vet in Mahomes 3 years from now in KC for the AFCCG. Or a veteran Watson in Houston for the divisional round. McBeane gambled on "win now and win in the future" and it's going to cost them. They put too much on the bandaid in year one, and then tanked. Waste of resources, time, and years that our few remaining good players don't have. The Jags equally gambled on the "now." They just had better players and a better team. Not accounting for the QB position will haunt them as well. Imagine riding Yeldon and Ivory year one of Marrone with Watson backing up Bortles. They may have been 8-8 that first year instead of 10-6, but they probably would be 11-5 this season and contenders for Watson's entire rookie contract. Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.

If you like PRODUCTION, let me tell you about the tub of goo! Our big boy has 28 tackles in 10 games. For comparison, he had 39 tackles in 8 games under the Rexit. But TFL’s!!! He’s got one. What a stat stuffer. Sacks? Did you guess? One. Oh but he’s not a sack or tackle guy! He plays a different role! Wait. Dareus got his contract after posting 10 sacks and 12 TFLs in the 2014 season. Since then, the tub of goo has 10.5 sacks and 17 TFLs. #production #halfofforangechicken

Well, tbh, which third QB off the board would you rather have? The one who threw 2 TDs in 6 games or the one who threw 19 TDs in 7? We’ll take your calls after the break.

Watson is like a son to me.

Lots of season left to be played. If Allen plays the next 6 games and goes 2-4, throws 4 TD’s to 6 INT’s, and generally looks the same as he did last game, do you think about QB in rounds 1 or 2?

Bump. My man is 7-0 since week 3. With a caved in chest. Is that good?

I don’t deny the Chiefs are loaded with talent. I just think that Mahomes is head and shoulders better than Alex Smith and we’re seeing that translate to the field. And Alex Smith is a good QB. Being head and shoulders above an established franchise/fringe franchise guy in your first season as a starter is REMARKABLE. I know it’s said a lot “put him in the HoF now!!” by his detractors. And I know careers can be up and down, there’s flashes in the pan etc. But. If you had to put money on what QB under 30 in the NFL today would make the HoF, Vegas wouldn’t give you favorable odds on Mahomes. He’d be the leader in the clubhouse EASY. That’s remarkable for a kid after 12 starts. REMARKABLE.

Good and fair points but I'll say this: If we aren't playoff/"make a run" contenders 2 years from now, both McD and Beane should be fired. If we don't have salary cap constraints in 2-3 years, we don't have enough good players. This is the new NFL. There is no excuse anymore. You don't get to tank for a year or two and then scrape out an 8-8 year. Say what you will about Whaley (I think he was mediocre at best) but he understood that in the new NFL, you accumulate talent over the short term and make your run. His issue was basically ignoring the QB position while doing so (and some questionable "talent"). The Jags have the same problem. There is NO reason they shouldn't have drafted a decent QB prospect since Bortles. NONE.

Tell me where I said you did. Take your own advice bro. Alex Smith is not "eeriely similar" to Tyrod Taylor. That's a gross mischaracterization of a fine QB whose jock is better than Taylor. 2017 was an anomalous year in terms of passing. I just demonstrated that above. Yes, Alex Smith had one of the best years of his career in 2017. However, it was merely above average based on the rest of the league. Bottom line, Alex Smith's best year was worse than: Matt Ryan (2012, 2016) Aaron Rodgers (2009, 2011, 2014, 2016) Phillip Rivers (2006, 2008, 2011) Cam Newton (2015) Drew Brees (2004, 2008, 2011, 2013) Tom Brady (2007, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2017) Russell Wilson (2014, 2015) And I promise you, when Mahomes finishes this year, he will have a better year than half of that list of individual seasons, if not more. What Alex Smith did was have a good year. Mahomes is cruising past HoF QB's best seasons. We will talk about Mahomes 2018 season like we do Brady in 2007 or Peyton in 2013.

Okay, let me put it this way. If you think Hill has more hypothetical trade value than Mahomes today, you're the only person who thinks that. In the world. Tyreek Hill doesn't think that. Maybe his mother does, but probably not.

I know. NFL guys are completely behind the curve, especially in Bills land.

And Brady was infinitely more valuable than Moss, demonstrated by what Brady did without Moss and what Moss did without Brady. Imagine saying you'd take Moss over Brady in a draft. You're such a bad troll dude.

Because points matter in football. You can pretend that 26 TD's/5 INT's is equal to 52 TD's and 10 INT's, but it ain't. The top third of the league usually passes for 4000+ yards every year, btw.

What league are you watching? 26 passing TD's the "envy of any QB in the league?" 3 QB's this year have already passed for 26 or more TD's in 10/11 games this year. 9 QB's last year finished with 26 or more TD's in 13/15/16 games. 12 QB's in 2016 finished with 26 or more TD's in 12/14/15/16 games. 13 QB's in 2015 finished with 26 or more TD's in 15/16 games. You need to watch the league more and the Bills less. Just because Peterman and Allen aspire to one day throw 26 TD's in a year doesn't mean the rest of the league considers that incredible.

Have to go QB if one is there. Have to.

Cancer surgery is expensive but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t pay for it.

Mahomes has thrown 10 more TDs in 6 less games. It’s not even close.

So talented they won 3 games the year before. Maybe you’ll call the 2018 Bills talented when we muster our 4th win this year:

Unfortunately, you have to care and give 100% to be a disruptive penetrating DT. The tub of goo struggles with that part. One of the most disappointing talents in Bills history.

Hide the Mongolian buffet.

You’re drunk. Imagine being a Pats fan for the last 18 years and thinking a WR is more valuable than a QB. Outrageous take, even for this crowd.

Mahomes is putting up high numbers in 10 games than Smith in his best 16 games there ever.

Yeah, that’s why Alex Smith was putting up these numbers before Mahomes. Because anybody could do it.

I’d take one and done over not making the playoffs. Which Stafford has done how many times in his career? You can’t win the Super Bowl without making the playoffs. Statistically impossible, actually. And Peyton Manning is a surefire HoF QB. Matt Stafford is a good for his era QB. I always take HoF QB over good QB.

Okay. If Allen busts and McD is fired, I guess it’s all gravy because he had his hands tied about taking a QB with a top 8 pick. He had time to research Tre White but not a QB. We all know one CB wins Super Bowls.