Deranged Rhino

So, you'd rather not try anything at all?

Our rights don't exist because the state says so. They exist independent of the state itself. Thus, they cannot take them based on fear or current events. They must be given to them willingly. And that is done by manipulating the public into being too afraid to think beyond the moment. It's the oldest trick in the book, and it's on full display in our present crisis. Gotta be more brave than that.

Yes and no. I'm not a fan of the Patriot Act or mass surveillance in general, but the Patriot Act has been reformed many times since its inception, and there are still many layers required to get a FISA on an American citizen. But even with these protections in place, what we know for a fact is that the Obama Administration (and likely the Bush admin before them) were abusing the mass surveillance tools to spy on Obama's political opposition. He used these tools to spy on Congress ( https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/12/a-brief-history-of-the-cias-unpunished-spying-on-the-senate/384003/ ) , to spy on American citizens, to spy on his political enemies, and to spy on the media. If you've never seen this document, you should read it in full (with extra attention paid to pages 82-84). It lays it out in black and white. https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/2016_Cert_FISC_Memo_Opin_Order_Apr_2017.pdf Apply that to contact tracing in our present situation. Or any of the crackdowns. It's the same formula: FEAR makes people do stupid things, like giving up their rights for security which cannot be promised.

The Patriot Act? Or the notion of mass surveillance in general? Or both? Are you asking why the FBI needed to invent a case against Flynn if they could have just decided to surveil whomever they wish? Do I have that right?

What route? I'm not trying to be argumentative with you or pedantic, I'm trying to understand your point so we can talk to one another rather than past one another. And, adding to this excellent post, the rules for criminal investigations are much different (with higher bars) than counterintelligence investigations.

Shh... don't look back at the story that dominated the American media for four years....

You. And if you learn the history of TSW, you'll understand the reference

How are you defining the deep state? What is the point you're trying to make with that excerpt?

Is that for Americans or foreign nationals? Where are you cutting and pasting from? What do you think this shows?

Thread:

So this is where all the people who supported Schiff admit they were wrong, right? Nah. Those posters won't do that. They're not honest or principled enough. In fact, most have chosen to remain willfully (and hilariously) ignorant on this topic because it's easier on their cognitive dissonance.

Horowitz did not find this, point of fact. Tibs is wrong. As usual.

You need to learn more about how the system works. Learn what the 702 program is. Learn how the FISC works.

Wrong. It was enough proof to be a serious violation of discovery laws. What you're failing to see is Flynn's lawyers were working against him without his knowledge. That's why they got fired and are likely to be on the hook for lawsuits in the future.

Yes, there is. It came out last week from Flynn's former counsel. There was a deal with the government and Covington not to prosecute Flynn Jr if Flynn cooperated. This was kept from Flynn and the judge. https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/495366-something-seems-rotten-in-flynns-case-and-maybe-others-too Powell and other champions of Flynn’s cause have long claimed he did not lie to investigators -- a claim supported by the interviewing FBI agents, who concluded that Flynn had not made intentional misstatements, just failures of recollection, which are common. Instead, they maintain that Flynn was coerced into pleading guilty nearly a year later by special counsel Robert Mueller’s team of hyper-aggressive prosecutors. Prosecutors did this, Powell argues, by threatening that if he refused to plead, they would prosecute his son. The son, also named Michael Flynn, worked in Gen. Flynn’s private intelligence firm, which Team Mueller was scrutinizing over its alleged failure to register with the government as a foreign agent — a dubious allegation that was rarely handled as a criminal offense before Mueller’s probe. After DOJ’s revelations last Friday, Powell filed a submission with the court, asserting that the new disclosures demonstrate that Mueller’s prosecutors not only pressured Flynn with the possibility of indicting his son; they also secretly assured Flynn’s former counsel, the well-connected Washington firm of Covington & Burling (C&B), that Flynn’s son would not be prosecuted if Flynn pleaded guilty. This “side deal” (a) was not explicitly memorialized in the formal plea agreement, (b) was not otherwise disclosed to the court as federal law requires, and (c) was designed to enable prosecutors to evade their due process obligations in future cases. To back up her claims, Powell’s submission included exhibits. They are still under court-ordered restrictions and thus heavily redacted. But the glimpses we get are intriguing. Exhibit 1 includes an unredacted snippet of an email between two of Flynn’s C&B lawyers; in it, Robert Kelner states to Stephen Anthony: “We have a lawyers’ unofficial understanding that they [i.e., the prosecutors] are unlikely to charge Junior [Flynn’s son] in light of the Cooperation Agreement” — Flynn’s commitment to provide information and testimony in other prosecutions. Wrong. Again.

Nope. They exist on this board. Do your own homework, Sue.

Keep siding with the enemies of this country, and pushing a now proven debunked conspiracy theory as fact. Not a mistake. A set up.

REALLY think about the spot Flynn was in in 2017. 1) Flynn knew he was innocent of the charges he was being accused of, he was also fully aware that they were leveraging those BS charges to get him to cooperate against Trump -- a man he also knew to be innocent and who happened to be POTUS. 2) He was $3.5 million in debt for his legal fees alone at that point, and the longer he fought the worst that would get (he's up to $6 million now). He had sold his house, and was living with his siblings because his life savings was drained. 3) Then they take your son, who just had his first child within weeks of this meeting, and hold him over your head and say, "if you don't play ball, we'll ***** with him like we're ***** with you -- bankrupting him and ruining any chance of a future for both his son and grandchild. 4) All the while your lawyers, whom you trust, are working behind your back with the government to keep pieces of evidence which would exonerate you from coming to light. The FBI had their boot on his neck, and were holding a loaded gun to his months old grandchild's future. What would you do?

Considering the information you do trust, which is wrong, that's a compliment. Now, go back to pushing a long debunked conspiracy theory and fake news while claiming that you're not about that life.

There was TONS of videos in 2018 of people going door to door harvesting ballots only to toss them or change them. The internet is forever. Take a spin on the wayback machine and take a gander. Ballot Harvesting (which is legal in CA) is legalized cheating in its implementation.

Wrong. But you're a proven liar, so that's not a surprise.

He's 100% fine with it. He's spent months now defending it blindly.

Funny you didn't link that post -- because if you did you'd see it was replying to YOUR bringing up Obstruction. Your'e a liar. And you just proved it (again).

Because the evidence is out that proves his kid was (and is) innocent. They knew he was innocent when they were dangling him over Flynn's head. There never was a "Russia" threat in the 2016 election beyond facebook memes. You are. You really are. A big, fat, ***** coward who's too afraid to look at the evidence for himself.