D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

Unlike some on here I don't see Rex Ryan as some kind of coaching wizard. His teams lacks talent everywhere except the Defensive front. If he can overcome the Bills advantages at the skill positions, QB, secondary and the Bills D-front being at least as good as his-more power to him. Bills Win this one because they are better, Orton plays clean, D forces turnovers, Sammy and Woods come up big early in the game. Jets can't play come from behind and turn the ball over. We will throw early and often and win 24-10.

Yeah i get Welker has played for a long time successfully and Hogan is just getting started. The statement made was he may have potential. Im just curious after watching Hogan for the first time and having been impressed. I know its a lot to ask him to have a Welker type career. But, he seems to have a lot of potential.

Really? not doubting your sources, but mind sharing your reasoning/evidence?

Thanks for the link. He sure has made a difference. We still have the season to look forward to because of the change. Hope it continues this week.

This is right! And good coaching should be able to correct these things!

Okay Jack. You're right. In the NFL this year QBS have handled the ball 8316 times and have 264 turonvers. Orton has 5 turnovers in 139 handles. You know what he is a league average turnover machine. Do the math if you can!

I watched the game yesterday with my son and we both pissed and moaned during the game about the coaching staff, especially the offensive line coach and coordinator. We were disturbed at the lack of discipline or lack of improvement in that regard, and that's on the coach too. But, when they made that comeback at the end, we couldn't have been more excited to happy to see us win. Watching the brilliamce of Sammy Watkins can be fun. It was exciting. I ask any of the embarrassed supposed Bills Fans, would you have rather lost yesterday? That win could make the difference in the end. I also don't get all the Orton hate. It is almost like a win with Orton is no good for some people. The win needs to come from a supposed franchise QB drafted in the first round, or it is isn't good enough. LMFAO

The point is he has done a good job protecting the ball in his career. He's Above Average. And we should expect to see him do a better job the rest of the way.

By the way, Since Orton has taken over the Bills have been throwing the ball down field much more. This is backed up by the Air Yards stats. I looked it up and I forget the exact breakdown, but Manuel was getting 67% of his yards after the catch, and Orton is more in the range of getting 67% of his yards through the air!

Orton has handled the ball through passes, sacks or runs 2,647 times in his career. On 7% of the plays he either has a fumble or an interception. This is good for 17th place out of 62 eligible QBs-(500 plays to be eligible). EJ has handled the ball 540 times with an 8% turnover rate. Lower is better-obviously. As for sample size, people shouldn't look at 2-3 games worth of data and give it more weight than someone who has handled the ball over 2600 times. That is moronic!

Agreed! Look at facts. Don't just create a narrative to the story.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/qbr-espns-deeply-flawed-made-for-tv-stat/7978/ The truth is passer rating correlates really well with winning.

QBR has been discussed on here before, and I am not a believer.

He will only improve with the turnovers as has been shown by his career record of being above average at protecting the ball. Not having preseason is likely reason for turnovers so far... and lack of protection. The guy has had 88,94 and 96 passer ratings and a 2-1 record. The change is proving to be justified!

Because they can't admit that they are wrong and he is no where near the biggest issue with this team. He ranks way down the list behind such things as guard play, coaching the line, coordinating the offense etc. This team has talent and is succeeding IN SPITE of the problems. The guy had had an 88,94 and 96 passer rating with a 2-1 record. Why do the EJ lovers not accept that replacing him with Orton has removed and excuse for the coaching staff. We have much bigger issues than Orton.

Sample Size! Sample Size

A common theme amongst the Haters! Threw a pick yesterday and he fumbled, has thrown a pick in three games, EJ was better at protecting it. BS!!!!! He has handled the ball on 2647 plays in his career and has a 7% turnover rate. This puts him 16th out of 62 active QBs with 500 or more ball control plays. Ahead of EJ who is 30th. Orton ranks between Phillip Rivers and Cam Newton. He is ahead of Aaron Rodgers 8% and Roehtlisberger 9%. He trails Tom Brady 6%, Andruw Luck 6%, and Peyton Manning 4%.

Do the Orton Haters realize he is NOT a turnover machine! Check the record don't BS! Player % RUNS PASS SACKS FUM INT Fum+Int PLAYS Peyton Manning 4% 411 8669 278 71 222 349 9358 Drew Brees 5% 341 7062 276 80 184 356 7679 Kirk Cousins 5% 14 407 16 6 19 22 437 Matt Ryan 5% 230 3566 172 29 84 201 3968 Brian Hoyer 5% 38 382 21 3 8 24 441 Matthew Stafford 6% 141 2749 140 32 79 172 3030 Andy Dalton 6% 164 1819 104 15 52 119 2087 Carson Palmer 6% 245 4794 248 59 153 307 5287 Tom Brady 6% 447 6832 356 95 136 451 7635 Andrew Luck 6% 155 1499 84 19 34 103 1738 Matt Schaub 6% 183 3181 172 41 84 213 3536 Eli Manning 6% 239 5233 265 81 176 346 5737 Derek Anderson 6% 86 1497 73 28 55 101 1656 Tony Romo 6% 221 3989 225 57 107 282 4435 Josh Freeman 6% 197 2020 111 38 67 149 2328 Cam Newton 7% 402 1681 128 21 45 149 2211 Kyle Orton 7% 113 2389 145 34 62 179 2647 Philip Rivers 7% 271 4338 260 75 107 335 4869 Ryan Fitzpatrick 7% 316 2759 175 53 99 228 3250 Matt Hasselbeck 7% 345 5034 342 63 148 405 5721 Rex Grossman 7% 81 1562 92 32 60 124 1735 Brady Quinn 7% 44 550 41 5 17 46 635 Jay Cutler 7% 309 3573 235 71 119 306 4117 Nick Foles 7% 81 819 55 16 14 71 955 Sam Bradford 7% 97 1760 120 27 38 147 1977 Chad Henne 7% 116 1954 149 17 63 166 2219 Shaun Hill 8% 73 967 65 18 24 83 1105 Joe Flacco 8% 242 3348 230 57 83 287 3820 Jason Campbell 8% 239 2506 169 51 60 220 2914 EJ Manuel 8% 69 437 34 7 12 41 540 Brandon Weeden 8% 39 784 55 12 26 67 878 Trent Edwards 8% 78 929 69 14 30 83 1076 Dan Orlovsky 8% 13 472 29 11 12 40 514 Jake Locker 8% 91 675 55 9 19 64 821 Aaron Rodgers 8% 350 3166 249 46 53 295 3765 David Garrard 8% 380 2281 179 44 54 223 2840 Mark Sanchez 8% 125 1867 126 43 69 169 2118 Colin Kaepernick 8% 206 863 74 19 16 93 1143 Matt Cassel 8% 247 2369 182 47 70 229 2798 Robert Griffin 8% 211 889 72 25 17 97 1172 Colt McCoy 8% 101 715 61 12 20 73 877 John Skelton 8% 42 602 47 11 25 58 691 Ryan Tannehill 8% 111 1290 107 20 35 127 1508 Jon Kitna 9% 313 4442 323 109 165 432 5078 Seneca Wallace 9% 68 788 59 19 19 78 915 Tarvaris Jackson 9% 163 1066 89 24 35 113 1318 Bruce Gradkowski 9% 88 709 53 20 24 73 850 Geno Smith 9% 106 668 58 14 28 72 832 Russell Wilson 9% 228 975 91 23 21 114 1294 Alex Smith 9% 312 2871 251 53 74 304 3434 Terrelle Pryor 9% 93 302 31 7 12 38 426 Mike Glennon 9% 31 558 49 8 12 57 638 Ben Roethlisberger 9% 355 4565 403 73 125 476 5323 Christian Ponder 9% 126 1057 95 20 36 115 1278 Michael Vick 9% 831 3050 290 91 85 381 4171 Josh McCown 10% 157 1405 117 46 49 163 1679 Matt Moore 10% 59 764 66 23 28 89 889 Blaine Gabbert 10% 76 784 74 21 24 95 934 Matt Flynn 11% 59 348 37 10 11 47 444 Kevin Kolb 11% 69 755 77 19 25 96 901 Kellen Clemens 11% 77 620 65 17 20 82 762

Actually, If Houston loses Pittsburgh moves ahead of us!

Let's see, on one hand we have folks who say we are jinxed and unlucky, and then in the next breath say we are unhappy to be lucky!

Absolutely Right. With EJ playing we have 2 more losses!

This is correct!

This! This too! The people who are bitching about Orton's 31 for 43 and a win need to get clue! Dude stood in there and made plays when it mattered. On the priority list of problems he is way down the list!

You know what, you're not that far off in reality! Penalties and turnovers are in theory something a good coaching staff should be able to eliminate. Problem is........