sven233

McGahee for 4. This, so far has been the best drive of the preseason for the Bills........ MCGahee for another loss. At the Lion's 20.

3rd and 7....... PP on the catch.......1st down!

McGahee on a draw after a gain of 8 or so

McGahee caught in the backfield. We are at the Lions 40 or so after that loss.......

McGahee great run off LT for a huge gain! Broke a couple of tackles. Robert Royal on a TE screen for another 20...... Bills are marching!

PP makes a great catch off a deflection....

Davis runs sideways a bunch of times on the return all the way to the Bills 15 yard line! Who needs McGee??

Bills have won the toss and will receive....... Here we go!

Pre game comments........ Spikes is not playing......good. Neither is McGee.......good. Lions are not playing 11 of their starters or so. That is including Kitna and Williams. I am expecting a lot of running plays tonight. I don't see McGahee playing long at all. Maybe 1 or 2 series. I expect Losman to get a quarter or so. Pretty much the same for most of the starters except Vincent and some of the other older vets.

The mods can combine the threads if they wish, but I thought since the "fake" game was already played in the other thread, I thought we might start fresh for the actual game that is about to start! But, I will leave that up to the mods! I will do my best to give play by play updates as I have done in the past for those who can't see or hear the game tonight. Enjoy the game everyone.

I do like the idea that you have for a compromise. Here is the thing. We have all kind of lost site of what the point here is. The real reason we are having this discusion is because us football fans will be losing one of our favorite networks for very stupid reasons. Regardless of who is right or wrong (Time Warner or the NFL), the real issue we are having with it is that we are losing a network that we all want at THE WORST POSSIBLE TIME OF YEAR......THE START OF FOOTBALL SEASON! If these 2 HUGE businesses would just find a way to settle, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. There is just a lot of frustration out there because these multi billion companies are fighting over, what would be a couple extra bucks to you and me. Time Warner just looks like fools in this situation because they ARE THE ONLY MAJOR COMPANY not to carry the NFL Nework. There is pleanty of blame to go around. Time Warner is to blame, the NFL is to blame........whatever. The fact of the matter is, the only ones being hurt by this are the customers. As for your compromise, while it does make sense to try it on a trial basis and then work it out based on the numbers, but the problem is, neither company, especially Time Warner, would let that happen. It would just lead to more fighting and petty bickering down the road. I don't know what the solution is. The fact is, people who want the NFL Network, should not have to pay extra for it. However, maybe the NFL is expecting too much per subscriber. To me, the solution is easy. Just split the difference. The NFL wants $0.90 per subscriber and to be on basic cable. Time Warner wants NFL Network on a Sports Tier so they themselves can collect more money from their subscribers. Why don't they settle on $0.65-$0.70 per subscriber and on basic cable? That would make both companies money.....NFL through the subscriber fees, and Time Warner through additional customers that won't switch to Dish or DirecTV and new customers they can bring in because of the features they can offer. I know, it is not that simple, but this is totally out of hand and only us, the customers are getting hurt. Both entities need to realize this and step up. They NEED to work this out.

You are completely missing the point! You just don't get it! I'm not trying to compare NFL Network to Lifetime or A&E or any other network. All that I am saying is that why are many people paying for networks that couldn't care less about and not being allowed access to the channel they want? And trying to compare NFL Network ratings to any of the networks you did is just DUMB and STUPID! Of course they are going to have higher rating because they are in a GAZILLION more homes than NFL Network is! It is impossible to compare! And regardless of what you do think, it is a big story. Articles in every major newspaper in the country and several other media outlets make up national news. Is it as big as all the fighting going on over in the Middle East? NO! But, it has caught the attention of several national outlets. Look, the NFL Network is not asking for a special ruling here. They simply want to be placed on a basic tier to not force people that want their network to pay for it like ANY OTHER STATION THAT IS CURRENTLY ON BASIC CABLE! They just want the same treatment as any other network on basic cable is getting. Nothing more, nothing less. DISH NETWORK, DIRECTV, and over 200 OTHE CABLE COMPANIES AGREE WITH THEM AND KNOW THAT BRINGING NFL NETWORK TO EVERY CUSTOMER ON A BASIC PACKAGE IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. Time Warner just is fighting a losing battle and they know it! And they will see it more and more as people start switching to sattelite. It has already started and it won't slow down anyime soon. Cable companies, including Time Warner have had a MONOPOLY over the TV industry for years. They were the only game in town for so long and got away with whatever they wanted to..........WHY DO YOU THINK CABLE BILLS ARE THROUGH THE ROOF??? Because they could. Well, now there are actually companies around that LISTEN TO THEIR CUSTOMERS and give them what they want FOR LESS MONEY. And what is happening? Well, Time Warner is fighting a public battle against the nation's most popular sport and its fans. They are fighting with their own customers! Talk about great customer service! I don't care what the company's problem is with the NFL Network or the NFL, but you have to give the customers what they want. And it is pretty clear they want the NFL Network. So what, they make 42.1 BILLION this year and not 42.8 BILLION! (Actually, they still may make the same amount anyways after they stop subscribers from leaving!) YOU GIVE THE CUSTOMER'S WHAT THEY WANT. YOU DON'T HAVE TO RAISE RATES TO GIVE THEM THIS NETWORK! Is the NFL totally innocent here? NO! They are all money grubbing fools......Time Warner and the NFL! But while they have their chick fight over stupid things, the customer is losing out. TIME WARNER: THE POWER OF YOU! (To do absoluely nothing about your programming)

Again, you are not making sense at all! You keep using the argument that only certain people want to watch NFL Network! Well, certain people only want to watch MTV, HGTV, A&E, FOX News, CNN, etc. Why do they get to be on basic cable for everyone to see and the NFL Network can't? It is the EXACT same thing. I am willing to bet the NFL network would have just as good, if not BETTER, ratings than many of the cable networks currently available if they were in the same number of households. Again, there is a reason that the NFL Network battle is making NATIONAL headlines. IT IS BECAUSE THERE ARE A TON OF PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HAVE IT ON THEIR BASIC CABLE PACKAGE. Again, do you really think there would be this big of an outrage if this were over A&E or Lifetime? No, because people don't care about those networks, but yet, we still have to pay for them. The NFL is the biggest sport in the country and PEOPLE CARE. That is why this is making national news. So, your argument that most people don't want to watch the NFL Network doesn't fly. There are several other networks that people don't want either and yet we still have to pay for them. Why not offer them on a tier as well so the 3 people that want to watch them can pay for it and the rest of us don't have to? So, this doesn't boil down tot he NFL Network. It boils down to what cable companies determine people want to watch. And all that I am saying is that NFL Network should not have to deal with any restrictions that other networks don't have. The same rules should apply to every network. And right now, Time Warner is singling out NFL Network and not allowing them the same rights that all these other networks already have......the right to be on basic cable. But until some cable company comes up with A la Carte, the rules will not change. So, until that time, all networks, including the NFL Network, should have the right to be on basic cable. You can't say have certain rules for A&E and Lifetime and then different rules for NFL Network. TIME WARNER IS DEAD WRONG AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT!

Yeah.....just got it...... ABOUT TIME!

The problem is that you are not getting the point........regardless of who you feel is right or wrong, there are a lot more people that watch football through the course of the year than don't. You are saying that 90% of people in this country could care less about football. With all due respect, that is a DUMB comment. Professional football is the most popular sport in the country....PERIOD. More people watch football on a weekly basis than don't. Look at the ratings! There is a reason that everyhting revolves around the NFL......Because they are THE SPORT in this country and they have the most viewership. Time Warner has even said themselves that they want to make the NFL Network THE CORNERSTONE of their Sports Package. Why? Because they know that TONS OF PEOPLE WANT THE NETWORK and they want to capitalize on this and force people to pay MORE IN MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTIONS to get the network MOST PEOPLE WANT TO HAVE! I'm not saying that I can't see where they are coming from. Of course they would love to have this happen. They would make a TON of money OFF THEIR SUBSCRIBERS!!!! It all boils down to cable companies listening to their subscribers. The fact is people want this network and they should give it to them. DirecTV did. Dish Network did. Over 200 other cable companies did. They are not listening to their consumers and are not in touch with what people want (well, they are, but they want to screw over their customers and make them pay more for something that should be free to their subscribers in a basic package). And the final point here is that you keep focusing on saying that only certain people want to watch this network and they should have to pay for it. You are saying that the only people that want the network are the ones obsessing over the sport. Well, as other people have mentioned, what about all the other cable channels that most people don't watch.......who cares about having 4-5 news networks, 3 or 4 music stations, cooking networks, 4000 shopping channels, etc. I guess there must be a ton of people obsessing over those because I am paying 80% of my cable bill for channels I, and a lot of other people, don't want. So, before you go saying that Time Warner wants to help its base customers, remember that most of their customers couldn't care less about most of the networks they do provide. and maybe that is the biggest point of all....... YOU DON'T HEAR PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT ANY OTHER NETWORK BECAUSE THEY JUST DON'T CARE!!!!! TIME WARNER IS IN THE NEWS NOW BECAUSE THEY REFUSE TO CARRY THE NFL NETWORK! SO, OBVIOUSLY PEOPLE CARE ENOUGH ABOUT THE NFL NETWORK TO MAKE NATIONAL NEWS. I DON'T SEE ANY PROBLEMS WITH ANY OTHER NETWORK BECAUSE PEOPLE SIMPLY DO NOT CARE. DO YOU THINK PEOPLE WOULD BE CAUSING A NATIONAL FUSS IF THIS WAS OVER THE HOME AND GARDEN NETWORK? I don't think so. PEOPLE WANT THE NFL NETWORK! The NFL knows it and so does Time Warner. The only people that Time Warner is going to hurt over this are the customers.

I am sorry, but there is NO WAY 90% of people DON'T WANT NFL NETWORK! That is like saying that 90% of people in this country don't watch football! 200 MILLION people watched football games last year. 200 MILLION!!!!!!!!!!!! It is the most popular sport in the country, BAR NONE. To say the majority of people have no interest in the NFL or don't want the NFL Network is stupid. Time Warner made over 40 BILLION dollars last year. And now they want to squeeze their customers for more by forcing them to buy a sports package for 1 channel that they KNOW everyone wants? Just stupid. And, on top of that, over 200 other cable companies carry NFL Network on their base package. That isn't even including the sattelite providers. What makes Time Warner so special? And finally.....us past Adelphia subscribers have already had our fees increased because of the Empire Sports Network and now the NFL Network that has replaced it. Are we going to get our money back every month once they pull the NFL Network? I mean, we aren't going to get these stations anymore so we should get our monthly subscription payments for those channels back if they don't show them, right? I'm guessing we won't see a penny..... Time Warner can try to spin this any way they want to. But us fans in Buffalo, and every other Time Warner City are not just fans of our local teams, but fans of the GAME.....FOOTBALL FANS! And come the playoff push, we are going to want to watch these games that may affect our standings and potential playoff births. Time Warner is WRONG and they are all looking like fools in this situation. I encourage everyone that has the opportunity to switch to Dish or DirecTV. Show Time Warner that football fans are serious about their game. Also, please do your part and call Time Warner and demand them to keep the NFL Network. It is the RIGHT thing to do! Please call 1-866-NFL-NETWORK today and demand Time Warner keep the NFL Network!

I'm not ready to say what I think will happen in NE, but there is a good chance it won't be pretty. Then again, if they clean up their mistakes, they might be able to make a game of it. I just don't think the team will be quite ready yet. It will definately be interesting!

I agree with what you said about the fumble. Not exactly sure what happened there. No matter whos fault it was, it can't happen. And the coaches have to get the plays in faster. No excuses for the delay of games to happen. And, just another note.....those illegal formation penalties were awful. That should never happen. Cost us a TD. If we can get these dumb mistakes cleaned up, I really like our chances to be successful. I'm not saying we are a playoff team yet, but I could see us being very competetive. If that happens, it could get interesting!

Hey guys and gals! Well, I just got back from the game and thought I'd give my post game report, as usual. Now, I know some of you are expecting my usual long, in depth report and analysis. Not this week. I really thought I would have a lot to say after this game tonight, but really, this game boils down to one thing.... WE ARE KILLING OURSELVES! Now, with all due respect to the Browns, they were not the reason we lost this game. The Bills tonight made several unforced errors that not only cost us points, but cost us first downs and yardage as well. Penalties put us in holes early and we couldn't get out of them. Dropped balls were again a problem. Fumbled snaps and INTs in the endzone are not good either. So, what do I have to say about this game? Well, I actually think we showed potential. But, we also showed the reason why we might not be ready to take the next step as a team. Too many unforced errors. Now, that is the real point I wanted to make about this game, but there was a couple things of note I should mention: Losman - I thought he had a solid game tonight.....the play to Price was great. Everything you want in a QB he showed on that play. However, he fumbled one snap and threw a pick (although I think he knew it was going to be his last series/play so I think he just tried to force something. I don't think he throws that ball in the regular season). However, that stuff aside, it is, and has been VERY CLEAR that Losman is the starting QB for this team. About time. McGahee - Didn't do a whole lot. Had a couple nice runs, but was pretty average. He does look much quicker though and you can see that the initial burst that we have been waiting for is back. O-Line just needs to open some more holes for him. Evans - Will have a great year. Another solid game tonight. No worries. Price - Showed signs tonight. Great catch on the TD and also had another catch for a 1st down that got called back (again, killing ourselves) I think he provides us with the best 2nd option on this team. You can't coach spped. If this team doesn't open with Evans, Price, and Parrish as their top 3 receivers, I think, as of right now, the Bills will make a mistake. Reed just doesn't provide the 'big play' potential as much as they do. Just doen't have the speed. However, if Price doesn't hold up his end of the bargin, Reed will have to due as a #2. O-Line - I thought they did a good job on pass protection, but they didn't have a lot of push up front in the run game. But, that is nothing new. I know they are running base plays, so I hope they are saving their best for the regular season. But they need to block for the run better. Spikes - Not too worried about him. I think he is ready to go. Good showing in limited action. Run defense - Pretty strong again outside of a couple draw plays. The Browns ran several draw plays and were successful on a few of them. But, they were pretty solid. Pass defense - Bad again tonight.....especially on the opening drive. They had their moments and they did shut Cleveland down after the first drive, but there were big holes in the zone defense they were playing tonight. Looked better in their man to man defense. Also, there were times they got a pass rush, but for the most part the Cleveland QBs had a lot of time to throw. Must improve. Well, I guess that is it for now. If this team would stop with the mental errors (delay of game, false starts, holding, fumbles and INTs), I think they could surprise a few people this year. They have big play capability, but they have to stop killing themselves or they will get nowhere. Tons of potential, but they need to fix their mistakes.

Any QB is going to look good with that WR core. Perhaps the best WR core 1-3 in the game.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Time Warner is treating us as though we are stupid. I mean, come on......we all know we will see our Bills games, but did they ever stop and think for a moment that Bills fane are also FOOTBALL fans who want not only to see the Bills games, but every football game they can??? They keep saying that all of these are out of market games and are trying to make it sound like nobody cares to watch them! I wish there was some way we could just force Time Warner out of here. This is stupid. Time Warner is a disease.

To put all of this to rest, this run had a few parts to it........ 1. McGahee made a GREAT cut in the hole and showed that initial burst that we all have been waiting for. 2. McGahee showed the breakaway speed we have wanted to see for the first 40 yards or so of the run. He did run away from people for the first 40 yeards. 3. After he hit the 40 yard mark or so, it looked as though someone threw an anchor around him because he was SPENT. He was running on fumes for the last 20 yards and if the endzone was 5-10 yards further away, he would not have made it. So, everyone is right on this run because he showed us a lot of things. He showed that the initial burst IS back and he is faster than a lot of the players on the field. HOWEVER, he also showed us that his stamina may not be where it should be. What I took out of this run is that he does have his cutting back and will be breaking more runs this year......he may not have a 70 or 80 yard run, but I can definately see him breaking 10 to 20 yarders on a semi-regular basis this year. And that will be good to see.

Me too.........that was a safety. The refs had a tough day I thought. They missed a pass interference call late in the game on Cinci that I believe was on a third down. I thought initially that the roughing the passer call was iffy as well. Oh well, I guess it is Preseason for the refs as well. Just hope they get it right in the next couple weeks.

Hey guys! Thanks again for reading. I just thought I would drop a line in here about the INT. I just saw a couple different angle of it for the first time. I really think that it may not have been just one person'sfault here. From what I saw here, Cinci was playing a zone coverage and both JP and Reed may have read it as man to man. If that was the case, JP was trying to hit him on a slant or a quick in route counting on Reed to have body position on the DB. Reed may have had the option to run a slant or a curl in that situation and looked confused during the play as to what he was supposed to run. If you see the replay, it just looks like Reed had no clue on what route to run. But, JP has to read that Defense better as well. So, rather than placing the blame on one guy, I think there is enough to go around. JP misread the defense, Reed may have as well and didn't know what route to run, and it was a great defensive changeup by Cinci. However, as I stated before, I respect JP for taking the heat on that one. It shows he is willing to step up for his teammates and that will go a long way into developing respect from the team. They will watch the film. They know where the play was supposed to go. It will get fixed and I just think that although it was a terrible play and can't happen, it is a good learning experience and might end up help the team more than it hurts them for a lot of reasons.

Ha, sorry about the lack of editing. It is late for me too! I just wanted to get the report up before I got too tired. I realize it is far from great, but I wanted to get the details up tonight for those not lucky enough to be there! I will try harder next time!