HopefulFuture

Ah, but that is where you are incorrect. There are ways to hit the NFL PR wise without hitting the stadium being filled. Shut down the bridges as I stated before, while carrying anti NFL slogan signs. Shutting down trade in the largest trade corridor with Canada 6 days a week. Leave the day a game is played here in Buffalo open for the Canadian fans to come across and enjoy the game. I assure you the NFL would not want anything to do with that type of publicity and it doesn't directly affect the teams ability to host games at the Ralph. Hit the NFL, not the team itself.

You worry about all the votes. To state the trustee voters want the team to stay in Buffalo is purely speculative. There is no information, 0, that any of them have stated such. What you say to yourself to help you sleep better at nights is fine and dandy, but it's not fact to be sure.

Oh yea, that will scare the NFL, make them think twice for sure, after all, wearing other teams you would support if the Bills left is just screaming to them they would lose money It's all about the money at the end of the day. Any bad PR that has a real impact, putting the NFL in a negative view is the way to go. Hit them where it hurts, their bottom line. Supporting other teams, does nothing but further encourage the NFL to support a move.

Pegula is worth roughly just over 4 billion with 3 billion of that in liquidity I would imagine. The Toronto group is big monetarily. It's MLSE and they have a vast market to draw revenue from to fill their coffers. No surprise here. Many will be surprised by the price of this team. I don't see Galisano or Pegula going much higher than a 1.5 billion bid, the Toronto group, yes, I can see them offering 2 billion for the team.

You all really want to save the Bills if it is believed the Toronto group is the front runner to purchase the team? I'm serious here, you want to make a statement that would have devastating effects on both the NFL and Toronto in general? Shut down the Peace Bridge and the Lewiston-Queenston Bridge. Burn tires, gather thousands, and I mean thousands of fans at these bridges. You want to see the powers that be shake in their boots. Go ahead, shut down the largest trade corridor between our largest trade partner. Every day the bridges are not in use is a loss of millions of dollars in trade. Remember this, it's a trade corridor, the Western New York region only mildly benefits from it as most goods are sent on to other destinations. Every day the bridges are not in operation, the local, state and Federal governments will be in complete panic mode. This will have short term effects employment wise here in WNY, but how much are you willing to sacrifice to keep the Bills here? How far are you willing to go to show your passion, your loyalty, not only for a sports team, but a local right of passage, a way of life. Shut down the Bridges, and I can assure you, the message will be sent loud and clear. It's the only true way to do it. When you hurt the powers that be wallets, they take notice, at every level, private, government and beyond. Take it with a grain of salt, but that is a sure fire way to tell Toronto to GFY..........................

Where to begin? Let's start with a Stadium. First off, the Stadium will be owned and operated by the county or state, that much is certain. Therefore, the ROI on a stadium rests largely with the tax base that pays, not the individual, because the individual or private shell company that is established can write off the Stadium expenditures. That is huge for investors playing in that kind of money. Second, every cost is going up, not just tickets and PSL's. Have you noticed inflation creeping in? Any increase won't be as hard an impact as you imply here. Third and last, tailgating may or may not be considered with a new stadium, it's an unknown at this time.

I have little doubt the Toronto Group wants the team in Toronto eventually. If they purchase the team, I would immediately stop any support of it.

Her poster still hangs in my man cave to this day. She's absolutely aged gracefully. Same thing with Ladd.

Yikes! I'm sure independent, attractive, strong minded women are just lining up at his door. Conversations must be fun with him for the opposite sex. I said shut up...."SLAP!"........get me my beer (insert colorful metaphor here). Make up must be used heavily in his household I take it.

Many on here sell Mr. Galisano short. He saved the Sabres and then found an owner that fit for the area. He didn't just rebuild the brand then sell to the highest bidder, he found an owner that was passionate about the sport and was committed to the area. Personally, I'd like to thank Mr. Galisano for all he's done for WNY. Selling the team to Mr. Pegula cannot be stressed enough. I am hoping those 2 team up with Jacobs in the mix on the stadium side. That's a potent force. If Mr. Pegula doesn't get the team, I'm crossing my fingers it's Galisano.

Yes, the NFL should expand. Canada is not a football nation, they are Hockey first and foremost, no reason to waste an expansion into a market that will take more than a generation to garner the proper support to sustain what the NFL is looking for when there are viable markets here in the US. Remember, Canadian public access to athletics is primarily hockey, football is secondary at best. Mexico? Really? No, I'm serious, Really? Who in their right mind would want to open up in that market given the nations turmoil with the drug cartels and it's more than apparent inability to offer any security what so ever to an event like an NFL game given the nations violence combined with it's massive corruption that facilitates that violence at multiple levels. This is a sports eutopians pipe dream at best. Forget it, not going to happen in the long range future let alone short range. There are markets here in the US that can be expanded in to, keep it here.

There is something special for the player and the organization when it comes to home town scenarios. Lebrons situation is no different, he happens to be high profile is all. As for understanding an area, a city or a region, I don't buy in to that. Fans passion has little to do with a players decision to come here, it's either money or the caliber of team in almost every case. Personally, I don't care if they are from Buffalo or Timbucktoo, as long as they give their all on the field and work hard to maintain that competitive edge, that is what interest me.

Pegula is passionate about hockey and Buffalo. Galisano is passionate about money and political ambitions. I'll go with Pegula

Since Jon Bon Jovi was interested in buying the team I'd like the Goo Goo Dolls to pony up as well

Steel did not put Buffalo on the map. Being at the end of the Great lakes did for commercial travel via the sea route. Steel was an industry here, but not even close to the main industry. That honor is reserved for the chemical industry. Specifically with the creation of the first electrical grid due to hydro-electric power. Let's not re-write history here, this area's draw for it's growth was electricity to industry and nothing more. The Lackawana site doesn't have a prayer to be considered, I don't know why people persist with this. It's not the best site in WNY available and actually has many inhibitors that make it an unfriendly site for a stadium. There are many factors to consider here, and 1.7 billion in funding doesn't even get it started. State tax payers aren't going to foot the bill on infrastructure upgrades needed to facilitate a stadium in that area, it's not cost effective. There are however several other sites that are being considered that lower the over all cost. West Seneca's site is a prime site for it's minimal impact financially on infrastructure upgrades for traffic flows while at the same time offering a more friendly experience for our Canadian fans via that traffic scenario. There are of course the wind turbines in that area in Lackawana, which I've stated before, good look getting an insurance company to lay down the risk necessary, especially given the large crowds in attendance in a venue of this size. Ever seen a turbine collapse on itself? I have, the debris field is literally a 1/4 mile in diameter when one does go. Nope, this site is just not feasible. Look at the wind studies done by 2 of the most prominent companies in the industry for the lake front. You want a financially viable stadium, you aren't going to want to add the costs on that end either, and yes, there is a large difference in wind a mere 5 miles off the lake. Like I said, this project is someones pipe dream, and it surely isn't the tax payers that are having those types of dreams.

I agree, WNY cannot bare the burden of financing a new stadium. Thank goodness we won't have to since the state spreads those costs out to the entire state, not just the WNY region. Jeez, I wonder what you would say if downstate got a sizable amount of the NYS taxes for projects, sports or infrastructure, oh, wait a minute, downstate does get those funds a majority of the time..................See what I did there............. A new stadium, contrary to what you would have us believe, is NOT IN POINT OF FACT, owned by the sports franchise owner, it's owned by the tax payers of which ever county it is in or an assembled authority of local and state government. I don't believe your attorney's, I believe the ones that work for my firm however. A new retractable roof stadium in WNY would not be a large draw for big convention or other events that will make everything ok, that much I do agree with. Those days are long gone with the new age of the internet, there is just no reason to have those types of events any more. I will say the Super Bowl would eventually end up at a facility such as this however, and that is a big, big financial draw short term for the area. You build 4 or 5 of the nicest hotels in Niagara Falls and they will fill for that type of event, even if the stadium is located say, in West Seneca. In short, a situation such as this has great potential to further equity investment in the region. In the final analysis, it's a risk at every turn, and no, the Bills do not need a new stadium, but the reasons you try to emphasize, along with the likes of Esmonde, are poor at best. There is a great deal that CAN happen with a project such as this in this region, area, because we do have some unique attributes locally that can thrive off of the potential. All it takes is leadership, and I see that here now on the private side with the arrival of Pegula. Not to say he will own the Bills, but prior to his arrival in the area, equity investment was near non-existent here. That has changed, and that is fact, you see that fact everyday you look at the Harbor Center.

Ok, here is some information: They are not NDA's, they are MNDA's. The difference is a legal one, but the MNDA protects both parties information, an NDA protects one party. The bids are sealed, only the trust and Mrs. Wilson will see them along with their due diligence teams. Which brings me to combining the 2 above statements, the MNDA is needed so the trust can get full disclosure on the bidders ability to meet the criteria set forth on finances. On the bidding process itself, as long as the bidders meet the criteria set by the trust and wilson estate on the sale of the Bills (i.e. no party can actively bid that will consider moving the team), it will be up to the trust to recommend the bid to take, and that may not be the highest bid dollar wise. There are variables to consider when viewing the brand of the product and the NFL brand over all.

The decision will be appealed, during the appeals process all existing protections will be enforced. The appeals process could take up to a year or more. An ACR could be filed by the government itself to hasten the process. Since the appeal will be heard by the Patent office Trial and Appeals Board, the very body that issue the initial ruling, it's very likely Snyder's next step will be to have an independent body rule on the appeal, most likely the Federal Court district. This could go to the Supreme Court, in which case, Snyder would lose his case based on equal protection. In the final analysis, this is the end.

While I agree with much of this, I to work in the private/public arena with large projects. The one thing that you point out that is not entirely true is on subsidies. While it's convenient to point to those subsidies as one of the only ways to get things done in NY, it's not entirely true as to the why. 83% roughly of those subsidies are tax related, and being so, they help to bring the state in line with competitiveness with other areas of the nation that have actual business friendly tax rates. The only difference being the length of those tax subsidies. NY finds itself on the short end of the stick because it refuses to give long term structured deals on those rates. They are changing that policy, and rightfully so. Also, I cannot stress enough the 08 to present situation with regards to real estate pricing fluctuations combined with federal money being dumped into the cash stream. It's very important to realize that WNY did not see a major down turn in real estate, nor did it see a huge increase in pricing. It's been stable. I deal with equity investors from Dubai to NYC to LA to Tokyo and those type investors right now love stability, especially given the unknowns in QE based areas where those investors just don't know exactly what the influence those type of gov't programs have long term since they can't see where a particular market is going to level off due to the huge influx of gov't cash. I must also point out that WNY in particular isn't even close to the top of the list of this situation, look to newly built up populace centers such as Las Vegas or the larger LA basin for prime examples. Phoenix and some areas of Florida and Texas have the same issues on a somewhat smaller scale, but this areas stagnation, as you call it, combined with the infrastructure in place, which, isn't at all what you describe since it's a gateway to a large market such as Toronto, merely needs to have champions at the private and political levels to achieve it's potential, and that starts with private equity investors in the region. That investment will manifest itself from industries that already exist here as well as industry that find those long term tax subsidy deals to come here. The WNY region has had an immigration influx to replace those that have left for 40 years or so, but this is very common in situations similar to this, it's not as big of a deal as you make it out to be. Populations are nomadic in nature over a long term period. Nothing stays the same for a substantial amount of time. The key is to harness the generational skills brought by these groups and combine it with the existing populace, which, is more common place throughout history than not. I do however agree with you that as time passes the urban area will begin to see an increase in gentrification and as such, will see an increased market value. But this is long term as well. I do agree with you also that it is shifting from one area to another, but that does not change the fact that if NYS and the local gov't's put the tax rates at the medium level nationally growth would ensue in the existing structure already in place. In the end, manufacturing will return to some extent, it's an eventuality that cannot be denied as regional economics on a broader historical pattern are cyclical in nature. In place of that manufacturing that does not manifest itself in the short to mid term future, there will be other industries, such as the service sector, to replace the remaining portion. The time frames on something like this can take 2, 3 or even 4 generations depending on the equity investment size. The larger the equity investment, the faster it moves. And what were looking at in WNY is a larger equity position for larger investors due to it's proven ability to remain stable in turbulent situations, such as the 08 scenario. I must also note, you must rule out financial institutions as entities that will absorb some of the region with equity positions. Hedge Funds, Investment Banks, Commercial Banks (because they are considered dual roles since the repeal of the Glass–Steagall Act) and some other independent funding sources. WHile these type of financial industries may desire some long term, stable positions, it's in opposition to their overall goals of consistent returns that draw in more investors at a rapid rate. Instead, look to individuals with wealth (i.e. the Pegula's, Jacob's, Galisano's) and their abilities to foster both independent as well as co-dependent investment strategies.

Sorry all, I've been told not to put up anymore of my "speculation" comments without a source. And since I won't jeopardize my job to give a little information on this forum I cannot comment on this subject.

I can assure you of this much, the water front isn't even being considered. That much I do know. Edit: And contrary to popular belief, minimizing infrastructure costs is pivotal, this isn't pre 08, money is tight at all levels of governments right now. Detroit and a few other situations combined with the loss of heavy revenue streams, even from Canadian shoppers in the region, is a very real situation. You aren't going to see the free spending that was done in the past. All of this comes into play, has been discussed to some level and isn't taken lightly in those conversations.

Not necessarily, that is at the discretion of the owner of the stadium, which is Erie County. They make the call. But, a wink and a nod along with a lengthy written contract would be considered the norm. Yes, it is a solid connection, but they won't be the only ones involved over all. There's additional infrastructure upgrades to traffic flows, development of parking around a stadium and various other projects that would be part and parcel of any situation like this if the stadium site is chosen closer to the population center of the region. And that is very possible. Think of parties such as Benderson Developers, Paladino Construction and the local Union halls for skilled trades on the development side, and think longer term here, 5 to 10 years beyond the stadium construction, as these projects would come in smaller waves. As I keep saying, there is a great deal more here than meets the eye.

No, Jacobs would not own it. There are certain guarantees made to parties that put up the capitol necessary. And there is no promises his money will be accepted either, but, the option does exist.

Seymor Knox secured 67.5 million dollars of the original 127 million to build FNC (at the time known as Crossroads Arena). It is widely known 55 million of that came from Jeremy Jacobs. In return, Jacobs firm gets the vending contracts, which are much more lucrative over the life span of an arena of this stature (normally slated for 50 years). Jacobs will most certainly be in on any stadium built for the Bills, those contracts are worth their weight in gold.

Ah Campy, good to see you over here on TBD. Looks to be an interesting time for another one of our sports franchises. And look, no political thread