HopefulFuture

No one can really give you a true time frame except the trust. This will take as long as the trust allows it to. Since it has been reported a vote from the NFL board of governors could take place at the Oct. meetings, use that as a timeline..

The trust will announce it when the process of the bids is done. They'll still have to go through the owners vote, but I'd wager that is merely a formality.

You want to give Jerry some competition, stick a team in Ft. Worth and build a 2 billion dollar stadium for them.

Money talks. It's that simple. The only loyalty beholding to just about anyone these days is loyalty to ones own wallet. This is just further confirmation of such.

Yes, I understand. Just wasn't aware this was inside skinny is all. While I agree with this, and I shortened the quote to say that is very plausible. I firmly believe a local bidder will get the team. But, it's just my belief, it's not something I know with concrete certainty. What I do know is there is a great deal of activity surrounding the future plans of the team from certain parties in the region. Off field, not on.

Where has the NFL stated they require a purchaser of the Bills to remain in Buffalo? As I recall, the commissioner of the NFL, Roger Goodell, stated a new stadium is most likely needed for the team to remain in Buffalo, but I don't recall him saying the team must remain in Buffalo. And he wouldn't be, nor would the NFL be, foolish enough to make such a comment.

Thank you, I was 5, it was a great uncle, my grandfathers brother. My grandfather worked there until the mid 80's and retired, my brother, my great uncles son and my sisters son works there. I was a contractor back in the day there, working both Dupont and Oxy for a local firm. I'm not sounding an alarm to distress people, but insurers do take risks like this into consideration. As I stated much earlier, I was involved in an industrial project in that location and McGriff, Seibles & Williams, Inc was my clients insurance firm, they most certainly included the Oxy risk in to their policy. Personally, I like the West Seneca possibility for a variety of reasons. Downtown, I don't know, it's tight. Outside of the waterfront or south end I'm not familiar with the east side or north side and what is available cost wise.

There were 27 incidents last year on Chlorine release from the transfers, 5 were documented, 2 shut down Buffalo avenue. My brother works in the Chlorine division directly as a loader, it's not as unlikely as you believe. Yes, it is true other facilities rate with risks as well, but I wasn't stating this as the primary reason to not build there, but you can bet, it's been talked about. And yes, NF is not cost effective for a project of this caliber. There are other options that just are a better fit.

Yes it is. It's not a well known piece of information and Occidental Chemical doesn't exactly broadcast it for obvious reasons. But, I do know that if one of the larger tanks ruptures it has the potential to create a cloud that could, and I stress could, go up to 10 miles wide, 60 miles long, depending on the wind, killing every living mammal in it's path. Chlorine in it's gas state is nothing to play with. It can be very deadly, as both my family, the workers at Occidental Chemical and Occidental Chemical themselves found out the hard way.

While that is funny, and believe me, I know what you mean about those roads, that wasn't what I was referring to. Occidental Chemicals Chlorine division is less than 1 mile from the Milstein site. Buffalo avenue shuts down if a drop hits the ground while tanker cars load, I should know, I have several family members that work there and 1 was killed while I was a young lad in 75 due to this very concern. A Chlorine Gas cloud, should that ever happen, and pray it doesn't, has the potential to wipe out many people. Putting 80k in a stadium just down the road from a facility such as this isn't the best scenario, on several levels. Insurers have already voiced concerns about other projects in that corridor. Not to mention traffic flow, the Robert Moses due to shut down as the Lasalle expressway project ties in to Buffalo avenue in the future and the high crime rate in the immediate area surrounding that property due to drug activity, which won't go away just because a stadium is put up. There are more suitable site locations in the region.

NF is not an option. There is a major security concern there.

This. Without a doubt, the most exciting game I've ever seen, Bills or not.

Well, I am hoping, and I suspect, bandit and yourself may very well be correct. The reason I even jumped in to this conversation is because there is plausibility of the Toronto Group getting the team, even if remote. After all, they are in the bidding process. My original intent was to warn or voice caution to the board over all of this groups intent. That is where I started, I think bandit, you and myself got a little side tracked there. And yes, I have no choice but to wait until something rolls down decision wise for myself. In the mean time, it is a bit fun having bon jovi as a punching bag, hated the guy years ago for convincing my gf at the time that she should bug the **** out of me to grow long hair LOL.

Well, we could look at from the several parties point of view. The Trust What is their function? Well, it's obviously to get the best deal in the bidding process, but what constitutes the best deal? What are the parameters they are working under outside of the legally documented ones? Do the voting members of the trust have a firm belief in keeping the team in Buffalo? I've seen no statement to such from any voting member of the trust and rightfully so, as I believe that could hinder achieving the best return for the product. After all, why limit the ability to garner income, the sale of the team after all is being done to establish long term cash flow viability in the Wilson family while avoiding various tax implications. Ralph Wilson was loyal to this area, but he was also loyal to his family. These are merely my beliefs. The Wilson Family As I eluded to, I've seen no comments from this party concerning their stance on staying in Buffalo or not. And once again, rightfully so. I honestly no 0 about Mary and kids take on the situation, they've been very good about not disturbing the process. Maybe she feels the love the region showed her husband is more than worth overlooking a higher bid from a group who's MO is to move the team, even if stating otherwise. I just don't know. But the long term cash flow for the Wilson family, most likely through future generations, i.e. the kids and grand kids and great-grand kids may also play a major influence. Hard to say really without knowing Mary personally. The Toronto Group We pretty much agree on this groups intentions. The locally vested bidders We pretty much agree on this groups intentions. To me, it all comes down to Mary. I realize there are more voters than her, but I have to believe she has heavy sway over what her late husband has accomplished. I would imagine this is immense respect for her withing the inner circle of the trust, just something that I feel strongly about.

Well, I don't believe you and I have had this conversation as of yet, but, for myself, my view of the situation, it's probably singular amongst posters, at least, I think it is. Not positive though. I believe you are correct in that statement. And as I told my quiet friend, I have no direct knowledge of who the trust will select in the end, but I do firmly hold the belief that it will be a locally vested entity (i.e. Mr. Pegula or Mr. Galisano for example). It's just a strong feeling. EDIT: and I should have added, the lease doesn't address the long term strategic situation of the team, merely it's current timeline obligations, such as no intent to move the team during it's current "full" lease tenure. That draws to 2022, the 2020 out clause isn't a reality for any party interested in moving the team. This is most likely where all of the concerns lay when speaking of the Toronto group. And, you know, I have to admit, fans that do understand that have legitimate concerns on that when it comes to this are just pointing that out. Until the bidding process ends and a new owner is selected angst amongst the fan base is to be expected.

no bandit, it wasn't meant to respond to your post, just some general observations is all. As for your post, there is not direct comments or actions that state the Toronto group would move since the passing of Ralph Wilson that I am aware of, maybe others are. But to ignore historically the stance of some of the parties involved in that group and not draw some conclusions as to their intent wouldn't be prudent either, as long as those conclusions aren't based on speculation, but on that past history.

The Rogers family late father was well documented in his efforts to bring an NFL franchise to Toronto. There is not indication since his passing that has changed. And many who are pointing out that the language of the lease specifies relocation during the tenure of the entire lease are correct in legal terms. There are the local bidders, that is where the destiny of this club should lay. Particularly Terry Pegula. But, since no one is truly in the know on who the trust will select based on the bidding process, it's a bit nerve racking for fans. This only goes to show to the WNY general fan base for the team further evidence that this Toronto Group is not to be trusted, at all, when it comes to this regions best interests for the Bills. And others have pointed out the exodus that will occur revenue wise at the stadium should this group get the team, I believe that is a very real concern I would imagine. If the trust does select either Galisano or Pegula's bid that would solidify the revenue in the area for the team for a bit as some rejoicing in the fan base would occur. I'm sure there are many variables being considered here at NFL HQ, state and local gov't levels and the private sector through the bidders themselves. In the end, I believe it's Pegula, but, only time will tell.

Nicely done JW, that punch to the gut should knock the winds out of their sales for a bit. I'm waiting for a public statement from the Toronto Group with the typical excuses, but in the end, this should put to bed any and all doubts on the groups intentions. Excellent investigative journalism here, my hats off to you.

Here http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-source-nfl-stadium-sites-explored-toronto Also, I'm going to give a member I speak to frequently the ok to tell you what I told him aways back. If he chooses to post in this thread, he will. He will tell you the information I gave him. That is all.

Ah, I see, you don't like my speculative point of view because it doesn't fit your narrative of possible unfolding events. Let's get one thing clear, if you had any inside info, you wouldn't be on this website touting such, because I'm more than sure you'd be in breach of an MNDA/NDA. So let's clear that up right now. I'm not here to see your credentials, nor do I care personally. I've stated what I've personally experienced with projects at this level financially, once again, if you don't like the possibilities I post nor the actual events I've experienced at that level, to bad. The fact remains a move to Toronto by the Bills if the Toronto group bid wins out is very real considering their position prior to learning of the movement clause. Just because they've done a 180 publicly means nothing. And just because you feel these obstacles are to much to over come, doesn't make it so.

Ok, I can see we are going to go around in circles here. I am telling you all of what I just posted is completely plausible, you don't agree, I understand. As for the anti trust exemption, I don't believe the move of the BIlls would be counter to the 61 ruling, since they already operate in the aforementioned market. Edit: I should have mentioned the potential purchase (more like pending purchase) of the Argo's by Tenanbaum. But I'm guessing you knew of that already, so, what in particular about the exemption are you concerned with.

If that is the case, then I assume you would have known all of what I just brought forth.

Who says they already don't have that support inside the NFL's board of governers? Or that it wouldn't be looked upon favorably? This is money were talking about, they'll do what the net revenue line in the pro forma says most likely. And I can't see that line saying, ooops, a 50 million dollar red number, for example.

There are many obstacles to over come with the Toronto group, I'm in the firm belief many already have, or they wouldn't be bidding. There are things behind the scenes in motion always, that does not mean they will be successful however. I'm in a thread about supporting the team if they are bought by the Toronto Group, I'm giving sound reasons as to why I would not support them and I'm also sharing some inside track information on how the workings of large projects may proceed. I do not support the sale to this group, but they are very real player in the game, and in the event they are successful, I do not see the Bills remaining in Buffalo. I'm merely pointing out some of the ways groups or individuals (I call them entities for short) operate is all. Kirby and others are questioning that, and rightfully so, I can only speak to what I have experienced first hand. I've written before about bringing a 2.4 billion dollar waste to energy facility to WNY, I was deeply involved in that process, those investors at the 85% equity level, they green lighted the project for investment before some of the final analysis were worked out on key problems. There is much to learn about the inner workings of those with money to be sure. Take your post on Schumer for example, PAC and individual campaign contributions can be done to off set dissent from any particular politician or party. There are so many ways to navigate through this, if you have the financial means to do so. Remember this, this Toronto Group has players that have been going at this for a long time when it comes to an NFL franchise, they are well connected in the sports and entertainment industry in general and are very real power players across the board. There is no fear or insecurity here. Although I would not like to see the Bills leave, you know very little about real facts. About how it works behind the curtain, I've had the opportunity to, and I'm expressing to you, in very reasonable terms, that no matter what you facilitate as obstacles, there is always ways to over come, go around or other wise remove them. I know you gauge your life off of what you see in print primarily, you've proven that with all the links. Those don't mean a whole lot, and I'm telling you this because I have seen first hand what money can move, and it can move quite a bit.

Land procurement and construction does not begin until the out clause, at that time, there will be 3 years left on this current lease. If they bid on and get the team and are intent on moving them to Toronto (which every statement up until they learned of the relocation clause, combined with the history of attempting to move an NFL franchise say they are) it is well with in reason a stadium can be built from start to finish in 3 years, 5 years on the out side, but 3 years is more than likely. Investors for a stadium do not have to put up a dime until the following criteria are met: 1. Purchase of the team 2. Assurances from the NFL they can move Number one is already in play, if the bid is accepted, that achieves that goal. Number 2 isn't far behind, given the comments from the likes of Jones and Mara, and hey, take a look at that, Tanenbaum currently sits on the board with Jeremy Jacobs in the NHL governers meetings. Robert Kraft is well connected with the individuals on the Toronto Group as well. There is no reason to suggest they wouldn't get the votes to move the team if necessary. As I said, to think this cannot be done is literally nonsense. It can be done. Those type of investors need only have to wait until the out clause is in full affect and off to the races they'd go. In the years preceding that time, they can prepare, without any input from the ownership group, that can come as construction commences. This shouldn't be a hard concept to understand, but apparently it is to some.