GunnerBill

He isn't even that good of a catcher. He only caught a third of the contested catches that came his way. If you are not gonna separate you need to be better than that in those situations.

What I think is interesting is that Dane only has 17 WRs in his top 100 (I've got 20). He has 8 with 1st, 1st-2nd or 2nd round grades, he had 7 last year and has 15 with 3rd round grades or better as against 12 last year. He has 39 draftable. Last year he had 38. I dunno. I just don't feel like these two WR classes were that close together. I respect Dane a lot. He is really good at what he does. But.... I think the gap between this class and the last one was bigger than his grades would indicate.

Yep. I have a 4th on him. I like him as a LG.

@Buffalo_Stampede - I don't have a lot to add to what Kirby says above. Wilson can't run routes and AD's tape just doesn't match his testing. Inconsistent effort but also just not sure I see any special in him. On film I have his ceiling as a solid #2 WR. A slightly better version of Gabe. The testing might suggest there is more potential there but I dunno.... he'd leave me a tad cold.

Yea I know Connor Rodgers from PFF (who was on the Stick to Football Podcast with Matt Miller back in the day) also has him as his #1 ranked defensive player but I've seen others who don't have him as a first round grade. That is mad to me. His tape is flat out dominant.

My answers here depend a bit on what the question is. Because at this stage the draft media are very much into trying to reflect what they are hearing from teams. I think the consensus is too low on: Johnny Newton - I think he is the best defensive player in the draft; Jordan Morgan - I love his footwork, he is a proper offensive tackle, great pass protector; Christian Haynes - Again great feet, good movement skills, finishes his blocks; DJ James - I think he is in the conversation for the next best corner after the top 5 guys who could go round 1 (Mitchell, Arnold, McKinstry, DeJean and Wiggins). Physical, sticky cover guy.

Looking forward to this one... I normally take a team somewhere around the middle of the draft and then try and match value with need. I think it is a bit different with Detroit. Not a ton of clear needs. So will need a slightly different strategy.

It's zero in early rounds. And I do mean zero. I think moving up into late round 3 is a possibility but I don't then see the knock on after that because I think this class is not the best day 3 group ever. It's a pretty strong top 130/140 in this class. But the lack of underclassmen coming out means day 3 - certainly rounds 5-7 - is just a lot of older prospects who have underwhelmed / underachieved in college and maxed out their eligibility. I would not be surprised at all if Beane does what he did last year on day 3, trade back a ton and pick up 2 or 3 extra day 3 picks for 2025.

I think they end up doing something like the two #1s from this year and a future 4th or something. But then the Cardinals come back up into the top 9 for a receiver. If they do, of course I will. But there are a lot of prospects I'd rather have from this class.

If we draft two receivers and there are Mitchell and Wilson I'll be very meh.....

Renfrow played about 30% outside his first two years. But his productivity almost all came from the slot. I can't put my hand on the numbers right now but I am sure as a rookie there was a stat that was basically if Renfrow is lined up wide the Raiders are running the ball. It was like a tell.

That is not what has happened. This is a Josh - Stef issue. I told folks a year ago it was a Josh - Stef issue. It always has been. That relationship fractured. And when that happens the right answer is always your franchise QB.

They may not. I do. I don't see him ever "getting it" in this D.

I am with @DCOrange in seeing DK in Thomas. DK remains a 1 trick pony. I think Legette is harder to comp. I do see the AJ Brown one. I see a bit of Chris Godwin too.

Detroit Cincy Carolina Ta @Virgil

I agree with you on Thomas. He is a total one trick pony. It is just he is really good at the one trick and that one trick is one that give you explosive plays that change ball games. I have Legette 4, Thomas 5. I have Worthy 7. I think Worthy in the right offense will be a star. But he is one of the most scheme specific. I can well imagine a team like Carolina taking him and trying to shoehorn him into a traditional WR position in a traditional west coast offense that is all about precision and timing and him struggling to make an impact.

I think they are similar to me. Both showed some flashes of ability as rookies without ever establishing themselves and then struggled to get on the field as second year guys with injuries and funky scheme fits ended up benched. It's fair that we are probably deeper at WR than corner with Dane and Tre gone. That's true. I just have so little faith in Elam's ability to work out in this defense at this point. Not in his ability. I still think there is a player there. But the reason I didn't like him as a scheme fit originally and was a bit surprised he was the pick still applies. Not saying I'd be desperate to do it, but I don't hate the failed first rounder swap as an idea.

I would be willing to take a flier on him. I think someone suggested a swap of failed first rounders - Burks for Elam - a month or two back and I don't hate that idea. But I wouldn't be giving much up for him.

That would be a surprise but I'm not sure I'd describe it as a head scratcher. Not like when FFadpecr (not sure he is still here) insisted Carson Strong was going #9 overall a few years ago to the point that he insulted anyone who disagreed and then disappeared when it didn't happen.

Haha. Well at least you can console yourself that you were right and they were wrong!

He definitely profiles as average......

Okay, so this is a bit of a LAMP...... but it's Parliamentary recess here in the UK so my days are much quieter and I though I'd have a look back at the 2023 TSW Virgil Mocks. In version 1 I GM'd the Steelers and selected Broderick Jones at #17 In version 2 I GM'd the Packers and selected Lukas Van Ness at #15 In the real draft both teams traded UP Green Bay to 13 and Pittsburgh to 14 to select exactly those two players. So if you want to get your money on Newton to the Rams now is your chance 😂 In version 3 I went Jalen Carter over Witherspoon to the Seahawks sadly. Broke my streak.

Rounds 3 and 4 are where the value is at safety IMO. I have Nubin and Bullock with 2nds, but then a bunch or 3rd and 4th round grades. The issue for the Bills is their lack of a pick there. The 68 picks between our 2nd rounder and our first 4th rounder is really the sweet spot where a lot of those guys will go.

I like him a lot too and I think I like him the best of all the safeties as a potential Bills fit. I think I'd probably have taken Bishop ahead of him as a fit for the Rams had he been there..... because they do a bit more bringing their safeties up to play man coverage in some packages and Bishop is better at that than Hicks, but if I was the Bills who really need their safeties to be zone specialists who can mix up looks, bait QBs into throws and then close quickly on the ball and make plays I'd be Hicks > Bishop. I think both are really good players who will go day 2 and it wouldn't stun me if one of them snuck into the bottom of the second round.

I was hoping everyone would forget about him because of his ridiculously low ranking on the googlesheet. 2nd round talent to me. Surprised he lasted this long.