GunnerBill

I think there is a difference between McDermott wanting Daboll to run it more and what I am talking about which is asking the Quarterback to be responsible for reading the field and run a proper offense. They didn't hide him with a ton of half field reads and gimmicks. It's fair that not putting him in a heavy run scheme was part of that too... but I don't think McDermott was ever advocating for a heavy run scheme. The Bills are still one of the top neutral situation passing teams by the numbers. He just wanted Dabes to run it more than when he'd go like 12 passes in a row etc (and to be clear I had no issue with Dabes doing that).

He allowed the offensive coordinator to not baby Josh. He let them put a lot on the Quarterback from day one in an effort to speed up the mental development where he had a distance to travel coming from Wyoming to the NFL in terms of defenses faced. He also, contrary to everyone's expectations, did not force Josh to play small ball. You can argue that's happened some in the last 12 months, but 7 years in. Indeed after the Cleveland debacle in 2019 where Josh had got so in his own head about making mistakes he was doing a passable impression of a white Tyrod Taylor out there holding the ball forever it was McDermott who called him in on the Monday and told him to play free and cut loose and they'd live with the consequences. Was he involved in Josh's technical refinement? No. But he was big in the mental aspect of how they managed Josh those first 2 or 3 years IMO. I famously did not like the pick. But even as a Josh Allen sceptic my take in the draft process was if you pick him you have to take your lumps with him. Trying to force fit him into a safe offense as a game manager would have been a disaster. And I think there are NFL coaches who would have been guilty of that. Josh Allen's talent and work ethic are the main reasons Josh Allen is great. But the organisation did a good job of identifying and developing him. Even to the framework they put around him from year 2 onwards (the offense Beane built for him as a rookie was by the GM's own admission "awful")

Nah he interviewed. It lasted 20 minutes and there was mutual dislike. In 2017 Pegs vetoed him even being on the interview request list.

I don't disagree on Shanahan. I diagree on LaFleur because he has had similar moments himself in the playoffs and the Packers struggle beating other legit teams and have for his entire reign. Regular and post. And Jordan Love is good. I give LaFleur credit for his part in drafting him and being patient with his development but he is very naturally talented. That wasn't really my point. My point was even if he has a vacancy for any reason he won't hire Kyle. That 2015 interview went very badly.

Even if he were available and the Bills had an opening there is zero chance Pegula hires him. They interviewed him in the Rex Round back in 2015 and let's just say it wasn't exactly a meeting of minds. They didn't even try and speak to him in 2017 when he was the hottest coordinator out there and they had a vacancy. Terry is more likely to re-hire Doug Marrone than hire Kyle Shanahan.

If Rapp is out it will be Bishop. Hyde is here to backup Hamlin at FS.

What is up with Rapp?

Not sure how long you went back but Brees was above 65 all three years that the Saints missed in the mid 2010s. That was the same formula as Burrow this year though, certianly two of those years the defenses were historically bad.

No nor do I. But agree it is interesting to look at the numbers . So Josh must be 3-2, right? He is 5-5 overall I think.

I don't know if it matters or whether that threashold means anything but they are the numbers. When a QBR is below 65: Bills 7-5 regular season (last two years) 9ers 3-8 regular season (last two years) Bills 2-3 playoffs (since 2019) 49ers 5-2 playoffs (since 2019)

Shanny QBs 5-2.

Josh's career they are 2-3 playoffs when he is below 65 QBR. Do bear in mind I am not the one waving 65 as a magic threashold. But that is the number.

If they want to run it at us on 4th and short I'm happy. Our record of stopping rushing 4th downs in recent years is very good indeed.

I know you have been looking seasons so not direct comparison but game by game the last two seasons it is 3-8. In the same period when Josh is below 65 QBR the Bills are 7-5.

FWIW I agree that for a franchise with Josh Allen at Quarterback, even in a bit of a re-set year, the playoffs are a minimum requirement. I always felt that and said that pre-season. The floor for this team, barring a Josh injury, was 11 wins IMO. But not everyone on your side of the fence in this thread did think that pre-season. They were wrong, but there were some of them predicting 7 to 9 wins.

I mean some of the people who would say that now were also predicting 7-9 wins before the season. Not all, granted. But there were people who are now arguing "ah its just the regular season" who were in the pre season predictions thread forecasting playoff misses and losing seasons in some cases.

Think Kirk is a bad comparison. He is MUCH more threatening with his legs. I don't have a view on Maye's ceiling yet through his NFL play, but coming out I thought it was the highest in the class. I thought his floor was pretty low though, so I'm pretty impressed with how he has played so far on a bad team and in less than optimal circumstances.

To sum up your post (which I agree with) - Sean McDermott to blame for UDFA Levi Wallace's failure - Kyle Shanahan not to blame for Mr Irrelevant Brock Purdy's failure

I am absolutely not making the argument that Trey Lance got hosed. He is a bust. But if you are pulling the plug on a guy you traded way up for (and Kyle has a level of personnel control there way above most first time Head Coaches) after 3 games realistically what would the rope be for any rookie who comes in and struggles early?

Where did I say that? Totally irrelevant to my point. I'm not the one hand waving away coaching failures. You are. Just not equally. For the Bills failures they are what they are and for the 49ers failures there is context. It just doesn't wash.

I watched the condensed game version this morning not knowing the score and as soon as I saw them stopped just short I knew he'd go for it. Get the 1st down there and unless you miss a chip shot the game is over, whereas if you kick with 30 odd seconds left Love at least has chance to get in FG range.

This is Bill putting a couple of teams where he fancies a shot on notice. My guess is those teams are Jacksonville and the Giants... although there is a lot of smoke at the moment about the Buccs. Bowles seems stuck around .500 and the sense is he isn't at risk of being fired just so that Tampa can have a coaching search but if Bill were available.... then things might be different.

To me the point is less Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes would "fail" in Shanahan's offense. They are elite talents, while they both came into the league needing some development and got developed pretty well where they landed (Patrick on his footwork, Josh on his decision making, accuracy and exposure to complex defensive schemes), I have to believe they'd have found a way. It's that Kyle wouldn't target that type of player particularly and if he did he might have pulled the plug quickly. I don't know that Lance was ever the answer, I do know that pulling the plug on a guy after 3 games because he couldn't run your offense is kind of indicative of who Kyle is. There is no room for compromise. Not fitting his system to what his players do. You are running Kyle's scheme and you are running it the way he wants it run or, quite simply, you don't get on the field (there is a similarity to McDermott there in the sense that he has a very similar stubborn streak about guys who can't run his defense just the way he wants it executed). Kyle wants a certain profile of Quarterback and that profile is Matt Schaub, Kirk Cousins, Jimmy G and Brock Purdy. Now when he got someone of that ilk who was top class (Matt Ryan who was at his peak not quite elite but probably a top 6 Quarterback) his offense was unstoppable until he bungled away a Superbowl with playcalling. So I'm just not sure a Shanahan team would ever draft Allen or Mahomes. They'd draft a Joe Burrow if they got a shot. They might have drafted a Tua. I think they'd have drafted Lawrence (in fact he might be the best guy for this who was a real talent and would be a poster child for Shanahan). They wanted to draft Sam Darnold (by the way do not rule out them taking him back next year and giving him a legit chance to compete to start) but were out of position to do so. But a Jordan Love or a Jalen Hurts? Nah. Not gonna be his type. And then the other point about Shanahan and a star Quarterback.... I believe it might be an explosive relationship. Because in Kyle's offense there is only room for one name in lights. And it has to be his.

In fairness to @NewEra - and I do not always agree with him - he is always here. The poster he quoted and a few others who were very vocal in the offseason and then popped up for a couple of weeks after Baltimore completely disappear for weeks on end when the Bills win 7 straight. To me you do that and you deserve a level of ridicule when you return. I have no problem with people having wrong takes, we all do from time to time. But if you run from them and then pop back up months later to give another extreme opinion, and then in the odd case where you are right try and take a victory lap? Yea, you're an ass and deserve treating as such.

I mean if Kyle had coached better in the 4th Quarter of either of the playoff meetings vs Reid he'd have won one.