GunnerBill

I don't disagree with much of your post. I do disagree with this. He has to find more elite guys to support Josh. AJ Brown is LEVELS above Drake London. That is an insanely bad comparison. Brown is behind only Chase and Jefferson. And there is a GAP to #4. You are entitled to your opinion, obviously but I think you are miles off.

Dawkins, White and Zay were not Beane. They were McDermott. And Oliver is a hit. Not a star, but a hit.

They are. He just hasn't found that elite guy outside Josh...... yet! As I said earlier in the thread though Benford and Brown if they take another step can get into that territory. Cook maybe needs to take two more stepsm but isn't a mile away.

Of course the hit rate at the top of round 1 is higher than anywhere else. But even just the list of the Chiefs and Eagles elite guys.... Jones was top of the 2nd round AJ Brown was a 2nd rounder Mailata was a 7th rounder. I get it. It is harder drafting where the Bills do. And that is a legit excuse 2 years in. 3 years in. 4 years in. Beane is 8 drafts in. Other than 2018 - where drafting Allen trumps all else - he hasn't even had a draft that matched McDermott's 2017 haul of White, Dawkins, Milano. This isn't a Beane sucks or fire Beane post. But it is a legitmate criticsm at this stage.

Goff has been consistently underrated by a lot of NFL fans. And the reason why I am convinced is his rookie year. Where he did look horrible. You only get one chance to make a first impression and his was awful. It doesn't matter that he has then been very good and season by season consistent since then.... people will always find a way to say that is someone else's doing. Remember the "Sean McVay is reading defenses for him" nonsense. He is less Kirk Cousins and more Matt Ryan 2.0. A really good QB who isn't the most mobile and lacks a bit of clutch gene.

Yep. I'm not the one arguing Beane has had more busts than others. I actually think he has had less. The issue I have with his drafting is at the other end of the scale.

Mailata isn't elite? Are you serious? Wow. He is the best left tackle in football right now.

McDuffie is the best slot corner in football. He is literally the best player at his position. I don't know how that isn't elite. AJ Brown is a slam dunk too for me. I think he is severely underrated. For me the only two receivers better than him right now are Jefferson and Chase. On Carter you maybe have more of a case. That one might be slightly generous in terms of elite status. He is probably a tick below that right now but he is so darn talented.

Who there do you not think is elite?

I was just answering the question in respect of guys who "struggled" as rookies. And I certainly do not think it is all pro or bum. The Bills have a very solid, deep roster. What they lack is elite difference makers. Hopefully one or two emerge.

That struggled as rookies? Elam. Epenesa. Basham. Bishop. Cody Ford. Shakir. I don't put Keon in that category. Keon was okay pre-injury. He wasn't an impact player but struggled is harsh. Of the guys that did 'struggle' AJE and Shakir turned it around. The jury is out on Bishop. The others not so much.

The Chiefs currently have 3 - Mahomes, McDuffie and Jones. I don't think Kelce is anymore but at his peak may have been the greatest TE of all time. The Eagles currently have 4 - AJ Brown, Barkley, Mailata and Carter. And both Quinyon Mitchell and Cooper DeJean will be in that category if they back up their rookie year in 2025.

Wyatt is an interesting one. He had a couple of elite level years in 2020 and 2021. He hasn't really been that since. Over his career I think he is more in the good category than elite. But he did have a couple of elite seasons, so you have an argument I think.

I think there is a long list of "good". I think "slightly above average" is harsh. Beane has drafted a lot of good players. But you are absolutely right, the list of elite guys he has drafted begins and ends with Josh Allen. Of the current roster (excluding rookies) the two guys I think have the potential to get there if they can improve again are Spencer Brown and Christian Benford. They both had good seasons in 2023 and excellent seasons in 2024. If either of them goes up another level they are there. Whether they will remains to be seen.

Thing is that middle class is very small. Baker is probably the ideal landing point. $33m AAV and performing as well as many of the $50m guys. Its just hard to find them.

Yea. I don't think Keon is even that good at jump balls. What he IS good at is YAC once he has ball in hand. That is where his mix of agility, athleticism and size is at its most dangerous.

If it is something else that will get proven in the long run. Talent always wins in the NFL. There are guys who get misused and then go somewhere else and excel. I don't think that has happened a ton with guys the Bills have had. Poona Ford is one. I don't think the Bills maximised him in his one year here. But there are not a ton of others. In actual fact quite the opposite. There are numermous guys - EJ Gaines, Dane Jackson, Jordan Phillips etc who could never replicate their success here in other stops.

If that talent works out as well as the Eagles guys, definitely!

Vic Fangio is a much better DC than Sean Desai. That is obvious. And Desai was definitely part of the regression between their very good D of 2022 and their bad D of 2023. So in that sense yes, of course Fangio made a difference. But the main thing that changed between 2022 and 2023 was their secondary collapsed they couldn't stop anyone in coverage. And the main thing that changed between 2023 and 2024 was they infused the pass D with talent. 3 new guys in the secondary and a coverage linebacker.

Purdy is better than Tua are creating off script I agree. But I don't think he is better from the pocket when his first read isn't there. I think he hesitates and ends up late on throws if he is going through progressions pretty consistently. If he moves in those situations he normally has better outcomes than when he stays in and tries to get to his 2nd or 3rd guy.

I'm young. I don't remember the 1890s 😂 EDIT: Of course production matters be all and end all.

Slay has been an elite corner the majority of his career. I think much more likely 2023 was just a down year for an ageing player than Fangio being responsible for the rebound. As for Baun - certainly possible. I'm sure Fangio was involved the in the evalution to fit him into a different scheme than he had played in. I am not saying Fangio had no impact. But Talent > Coaching always and forever in the NFL. Coaching matters. Talent matters more.

Yea you are way off base. The Chiefs defense did not suck under Sutton. Not at all. They were top 10 in points 4 times in 6 years and top 10 in yards twice. They were good in the playoffs too. There was basically no change under Spags until they threw multiple day 1 and 2 picks at the unit. That is when the D majorly improved. Spags history is he is very good with good talent. But when he had lesser talent he does not get that talent to over perform. As for Philly - yes they sucked in 2023. No question. And Fangio made a big difference. No question there either. But getting a rebound year from Darius Slay, adding Zach Baun and three secondary guys in Mitchell, DeJean and Gardner-Johnson was the biggest change. That talent infusion was the #1 reason for the improvement.

McConkey isn't Shakir. He can play some snaps outside. But he isn't going to be more than serviceable outside. Where he will shine will be in the slot. As for Coleman I said he was a big slot here well before the draft before any of the big name talking heads were saying it. You don't to persuade me on that score.

Hoecht I'd have made the same decision they did. They are signing him for 3 years. 6 games is a small chunk of that. But Ogunjobi I'd have called off personally.