GunnerBill

You will have to show me some evidence of his "relative under performance" in those situations. Because while I definitely am not saying I have the data broken down at the level to disprove it I have watched the all22 of every Bills game last season back and it was not something that jumped out to me at all. I think Benford can play press. Is he a guy you want to do that with down in down out? No, probably not. But nobody does that in the NFL in 2024. Pat Surtain is the best corner in football, by a distance IMO, and played 74 press man snaps the entire year (out of 978 total snaps played) Surtian is better in man coverage than Benford, don't get me wrong, he is better than everyone. My point is just if your argument is you are not paying him because he doesn't do much press man when even the best guy only does on about 7.5% of his snaps you better be able to demonstrate that when Benford does do it there is a significant drop off in his play. Otherwise the argument just doesn't make sense.

So I do, and long have, fallen more on the side of we lack elite difference makers rather than "our coaches are the problem." Ultimately players are more important than coaches, always have been, always will be. However, it is fair to say that there are always two parts to pro bowl, all pro, top 100 type recognition and that is usage as well as talent. Again I lean to the latter being more important than the former but im setting the context for the discussion I think it is important to put that out there.

He is another non-separator on the boundary. His best asset, exactly the same as Keon's last year, is his agility and power as a runner in the open field with the ball in hand. But you have got to get him free releases and manufacture him some touches (both much easier to do in the slot). If you are asking him to win downfield on the boundary with any regularity in the NFL it is going to be a tough ask.

No I am not saying that. I am saying he is good at man coverage because the analytic data supports that. I am not saying he is good at man coverage because he is good at zone. I don't have the data on how often in man coverage the Bills ask their corners to press at the LOS. I accept that they don't do that all the time even when they are in man. But it also isn't never. And if when they did Benford was regularly getting exposed it would surely impact his overall numbers in man coverage, correct? I think the reason a lot of fans think Benford is a zone only corner is because he was a 6th round pick and the Bills got serviceable zone only corner play from Dane Jackson (7th rounder) and Levi Wallace (UDFA) previously. People presume he is just a slightly bigger, slightly better version of that player. But that is not what the tape shows and it isn't what the data indicates either. I contend he is every bit as good in man coverage as peak Tre White. What he isn't is quite as elite in zone as peak Tre (who for a couple of years was probably the best pure zone concept guy in football).

If Hoecht and Palmer were on other team's lists would they be listed as "quality"?

Given the concussions at the end of the year I think waiting (unless he wants to come to the table for whatever they have already offered) and then tagging is likely the way to go. And I don't think it would be tagging with the intention of him playing on the tag, it would be tag to give yourself until camp to work out an extension.

Williams is another big slot. He doesn't separate outside. Would be like drafting Keon Coleman all over again. Royals is a better outside receiver.

What you are saying is simply not accurate though. Nakua had 1 catch for 19 yards on Benford. It was mainly Taron Johnson who got cooked by him. 4/5 for 53 yards. Being honest about what happened requires you to, you know.... be honest about what happened. The Bills were, it is true, predominantly a zone defense team although the final 3rd of the season and the playoffs they were much more a hybrid team. From the Kansas City regular season game (where they played more man than zone) on they were almost 70-30, having been about 85-15 prior. For context 30% over the full season would have been the 15th highest man coverage rate in the league. Now they didn't do that all season, of course, but they shifted that way down the stretch into more of a hybrid coverage team. But when in man coverage Benford gave up the joint 10th least separation. Among qualifying corners. Tied with a guy who just reset the market. That isn't because of cushion or still playing off or whatever. In fact the cushion would surely make it harder to record those stats? I actually think he is already as good as prime Tre in man coverage. Tre was what Benford is IMO. A good man coverage guy. The difference between the two for my money is actually that Benford isn't yet an elite zone coverage guy at quite the level peak Tre White was.

Yea I am not advocating waiting. I am just saying the Bills are not in a great spot in terms of value of talent at corner likely to be available at the spot. A trade down from #30 or a trade up in the second are my preferred options. But I wouldn't pass on a stud DL if one is there at #30 just to get a corner because of need.

Nah once you have converted salary to bonus it has to appear on your cap at some point.

I like him a lot. One of our 2s is rich for my blood but not sure he lasts until our 4th. Problem is end of the 2nd feels like a bit of a wilderness for corner. All the guys with the talent that justifies a pick there are likely gone. I feel like the options are 1. Take one at #30 2. Wait until the 4th 3. Move around the draft board - either up in the 2nd or back from the 2nd into the mid to late 3rd or up from the 4th into the late 3rd. I suppose move back from #30 is an option too. Depends what is on the board for us there.

Benford can play man or zone. In terms of separation given up in man last year he was tied 10th best among all corners in the NFL. The guy he tied with? Jaycee Horn. Who just reset the market at $25m AAV. I agree the concern on concussions is real. But he would absolutely get $20m AAV plus on the market. As above his metrics compare well against the guy who just reset the market.

I understand the concern but I really do think Diggs hit something of a wall in 2023 and Amari did wrist ligaments in his first game as a Bill. That said it bears watching. But the Bills still need more talent outside. Interesting how soft Amari's FA market is.

Not true. His numbers in man are pretty good.

Excuses.

He knew he was breaking the rules. He just didn't know he had been caught.

What in the name of......? This amateurish. Which for all that I have criticised some of Beane's evaluations and roster building is not a word I have ever associated with him before. This is old Bills behaviour. Not the buttoned up, professional outfit we have been. Really, really disappointing.

In that tier, yes. The Hart / Duccase envelope. Makes sense cos the one thing he can do is move. But the Bills are more of a tackle pull team than an interior pull team the past couple of years.

Yea Cam is their backup nickel and their preferred dime.

Just signed in Dallas.

I presume they see a cheap vet with some starter experience to fill the Will Clapp break class in case of emergency role.

He wasn't decent in Pittsburgh.

Oh I am not up in arms. He is a camp body. But he is dreadful.

I don't think it is impossible at all. He gets 6 a season every season on a line that doesn't have "that guy". On a line with a bona fide stud creating opportunities for others it is definitely possible. He is never gonna be a regular double digit sack guy. But could a career year end up in that range? Sure.

Just checked. You are reading it right. Based on the PFF system that suggests he is pretty much worse than playing without a right guard. 😆 Yep. The Vladiator is actually a pretty good comp. Moves a bit better than him but same mess of a technique.