GunnerBill

I have a slightly different take. The first two years was on the team IMO not on AJE. They drafted a player, then completely stripped his game and his body down to try and rebuild him. If Epenesa had performed years 1 and 2 like he did years 3 through 5 I think he'd be considered a pretty solid 2nd round pick as a rotational pass rusher. Not a difference maker, sure, but you don't find a ton of 2nd round pass rushing edge guys that are. I agree, doubtful he is on the roster next year, but I think people perceptions of him as a second round pick are still largely driven by a very disappointing first two years.

Wade was 28 when he quit Union to try American Football, but agree this situation is very different.

The shortcomings as a passer are waaaaaay fewer now than they were when he won his first MVP. He won that first MVP basically throwing only between the hashes and as a low volume passer. Last year was the first year Jackson went for over 4,000 yards as a passer. Allen has four of those seasons. That is the distinction I am making. Lamar has always been an exceptional athlete and that kept him in the top half dozen Quarterbacks even when as a passer he was pretty unrefined. He is now legitimately elite as a passer too. That is the gap that has closed.

Yea I don't think he was an elite QB when he won the first MVP. I am not saying it was a fluke season, but it was a freak season.

I don't think people would see AJE as a disappointment if his first 2 seasons matched seasons 3, 4 & 5. And I put more of that on the Bills than the player. Of the three "failures" on our list only Cody even made it to the end of year 3. Zay was traded early in his 3rd year, and Boogie before his 3rd year.

Yea my bad I'd speed read and got wrong way round. It makes the Bills slightly below average at 3/6 - 50%.

Ah, got you. My apologies. In which case the Bills are below average at 50%.

He kinda has to. I give him a bit of a pass last year - the D wasn't the best collection of talent and he was a rookie DC. But hopefully they have upgraded talent wise and his experience will show through.

While I wouldn't argue the defense played well in this most recent AFCCG.... it did "hold up" and make a couple of plays when it needed to in order to give the offense the ball and a chance to win the game. They couldn't get it done. It is not as simple as "improve the defense" to me. They still need a game breaker in the pass game for those situations. And they haven't.

No they play touring American High Schools I believe.

The NFL Academy is based in Loughborough in the midlands it's about 150 miles from me. I understand they did play a game at Tottenham last year (which is just up the road) but I was out of the country at the time. Otherwise they played in Loughborough and Germany.

Ha definitely not seen him play. But I will keep a close eye on his progress. Good luck to him. Would be remarkable if he can do enough in college to be drafted someday.

The number is higher up the thread. Only about 25% of second rounders see out their entire rookie deals on their original team.

And as pointed about above it is how many reach the end of their rookie deal, not how many sign a second deal. So agree Cook should could and it is 3/6. I didn't say it was bad. I know it is better than average.

Awesome post. Agree 100%.

Agree. 35th to 45th.

But of the 5 that have reached "2nd contract" point it's 3/5 that have not made it.

Agree. Horn sticks out like a sore thumb on that list. I think the other 9 are the kind of names you'd expect. But Horn isn't close to that class. But he ia an athletic freak - 9.99 RAS and NFL GMs are a sucker for those types even when their tape doesn't match.

We were discussing all of his years. And they are not impressive. He just ain't very good.

When? He was up for 17 games last year.

Sure, but fewer yards overall. Some of that is usage granted. I don't think Samuel is very good either so I wouldn't have a big fight about it, but Dotson is a bust and he is out of excuses.

I think career stat comparisons overstate the gap. Because Lamar is worlds better as a Quarterback now than he was even 2 or 3 years ago. They were both raw coming out but Josh got to elite more quickly. I still think it is Pat and Josh 1A and 1B in some order with Lamar and Joe both in the elite tier but at #s 3 and 4 respectively.

I suspect at the next CBA there is an effort to standardise further. Very rare you now get 1st round hold outs since they made the previous changes.

So Shakir definitely would, Palmer definitely would and Curtis Samuel when on the same team for two years clearly out produced him and then even last year when both moved on and had clunky landings in new spots out produced him again. So those 3 are a given. Elijah Moore I could take an argument on because there is a reason he is bouncing around the league but production wise has more in the book. And Keon I could take an argument on too, I didn't like him or Dotson particularly coming out but his rookie season he had more yards than Dotson has ever managed. So yea, I think the Bills 1-5 would probably all be the 3 in Philly. Wide Receiver is actually one position Howie Roseman has not drafted particularly well aside from Devonta Smith who was a slam dunk (although I think they traded up a spot or two to get him so credit for that).

Nah. He sucks. People still waiting for the light to go on with him will be waiting forever.