GunnerBill

It is not just age. It is more watching him this past year. Because I wasn't saying coming into the season Von is toast. When you combine how he looks with the fact he is about to turn 35 I think the chances of an offseason being the cure are extremely low.

With respect to Greg you don't "kick $15m out of the $32m we owe into 2025." $6m of that money is in 2025 even if we cut him as a post June 1 cut NEXT year which almost everyone presumes is the plan. So really what you do is accelerate (I prefer that term to kick in these circumstances - kick to me means move out in time whereas here we would be moving money forward) an additional $9m onto the 2025 cap which would otherwise (with a post 1 June next year cut) be on the cap in 2026. Again my point here is that 32m is 32m whichever way round you go. You can't get out of a penny of that money by cutting him now or cutting him later. This year's 17m is guaranteed and the 15m after that is long since paid in cash terms. So do you want to spend ANOTHER $6.7m on Von or not? Personally I think he is done, so no.

He is explosive so he flashes. Looks like he is shot out of a cannon at times in his get off. He definitely has ability. But he is still making mistakes when he is out there too and it has limited his play time.

Yea it is concentration drops. What is most interesting to me is 3/4 drops were redzone and I genuinely think he has taken his eye off the ball to look for the goalline in each of those situations. In all 3 it looks like his head comes up early. I think that is something coaching can try and drill into him a bit but mainly it is the sort of issue that experience and maturity can help with.

Diggs and Allen definitely fell out and it happened in season in 2022. I was told that by two people independently of each other LAST offseason. There was a point where the two were barely on speaking terms. I think they managed to piece some sort of relationship back together for the actual season in 2023. I wasn't told that but just looking on as a fan. But I don't think it was close to how tight they were before and I am not sure it ever will be.

Surprised and disappointed about Butler's departure. I suspect not even getting a chance to interview for DC before that job went to Babich probably did it.

He is a number 1 back. No doubt about it.

Basically, yes. The Manning offense had some E-P elements as well mixed in with some Air Coryell. But essentially it is the Parcells tree which produced Belichick, Coughlin and Payton and their various assistants thereafter. The only guy I can think of who ran it without working directly for any of those three is Jason Garrett.

I'm mid 2nd on Mitchell too grade wise. I think he could go earlier than that but that is where I am in terms of grade.

Yea I refer to that in my comment. But the rumours about him as an interviewee were out there last year too. I don't think it will stop him getting hired.

He did.

Honestly don't know much about him. The Saints were an E-P team though so it is a schematic fit.

You are misunderstanding what you are reading I am afraid. You do not save any additional money cutting him next year to cutting him this year. The 17.5 "savings" in 2025 is money we are not on the hook for. That is his unguaranteed 2025 salary. Cut him this year or cut him next year we are not on the hook for that. The money we are on the hook for is 32m: 17m of that in 2024 - his guaranteed chunk of 2024 salary 15m thereafter - 7.2m of his original signing bonus and 7.8m of his restructure bonus (all of that money is long since paid in cash terms and there is no way to avoid accounting for it in cap terms). There is no way of saving ANY of that money. If he stays this year you have to pay him an extra 6.7m. If you cut him we don't. If you cut him this year all of the 15m thereafter accelrates onto the 2025 cap. If we keep him this year and cut him as a post 1 June next year then that 15m is accounted for over two year - 6m in 2025 and 9m in 2026. The 17.5m we save in 2025 is unguaranteed salary and roster bonus. We save that either way. But that is only better if you get some production from Von. I just don't believe we will. See this is just wrong. The best game any corner on the Bills played last year was Tre vs Miami. Sure he didn't have the splashy picks Douglas had vs the Patriots. But he was lock down in that game against quality opponents.

The $17m IS sitting on the table right now. He is being paid it to be here. It is the guaranteed portion of his 2024 salary. He would be paid it if he was not here also but then it would be dead money. But he is being paid it anyway. The question is do you pay him $6.7m more. If you are on about the $15m - my pojnt there is the Bills have known about that dead money since they did the restructure. They likely planned to cut bait after 2024 anyway - a 5 year year deal that was really a 3 year deal so that $15m has already been baked into their plan. The only thing they lose by cutting him a year ahead of plan is the ability to split that $15m over two years of cap.

But the dead money next year is already factored in. Because they are on the hook for that anyway and if the plan was, as everyone has pretty much concluded it was, to cut him after 3 years of the deal then the ONLY ramification to next year is you cut him now and all $15m of that is on 2025's cap whereas if you cut him after next season you have the ability to spread that over two years. But you are still on the hook for all that money. It has already been paid. Von has it in his bank. The Bills have to account for every dollar of it and have been planning on that basis. And the $17m in dead cap this year if you cut him is $17m you are accounting for whether he is here or not. So the question remains have him at nearly $24m and him be here or have him at $17m and not be here and have $6.7m to spend on an alternative who can be more productive. If you think Von can bounce back and produce sure it is a no brainer to keep him but if as I do you think he is toast it is equally a no brainer to cut him.

You only need that person to be more productive than Von. And if as I suspect Von will be little better next year than this that isn't a very high bar at all.

Yea agree. I can't see them sending them back to Detroit again for the 2nd time in three years but it wouldn't shock me at all if the Bills are a Thanksgiving game again in the next year or two, potentially as the home team in the rotating late slot.

I think the remaining unguaranteed element of his 2024 salary guarantees if he is on the roster on the third day of the league year. So they have to make the decision before OTAs and minicamps. EDIT: I expect the Bills to keep him. It just isn't the move I'd make and my suspicion is they will end up regretting it.

Nah I am really not. Tre White is still the best corner on the Bills. I don't think it is close. Even if he can only get back to 80% I'd take him over the other guys. But the way he played in Washington and in the Miami game he got hurt... I mean against Miami he was all pro level Tre again. One of his best 5 games in a Bills jersey. On Von I know what the plan was. But the plan didnt include a 2nd ACL. I have hitched my wagon to the idea that what I saw on the field last season wasn't even replacement level. I don't think that's as simple as give him more time and it will come right. I know how long it took Tre but Tre wasn't a liability out there even in 2022. He wasn't playing up to his contract, sure. But he wasn't a bum. That is what Von was last year. I don't take any pleasure saying it. I have loved Von Miller as a player. I was not a critic of the signing. I totally understood it. It was the right shot to take. Sadly it hasn't worked out because of the injury. I'd just rather move on now than try and force it to work this year and potentially have a guy hobbling around out there again.

If Von plays like last year they could literally get that solution with the practice squad DT who played some end at Tottenham that you mentioned earlier. As I said before even an Ngakoue level dust settle FA (and I have never been a fan of his) is likely gonna give you more. I think it is hope beyond hope that Von is capabale of being back to even something like effective. There might not be great solutions at end anywhere else. But that doesn't mean Von is one either. I'd honestly rather take a swing on some other mid level vet FA with the $6.7m than watch Von painfully trying to move around out there.

I don't dispute the final point - to be clear. But Von is toast. I'll happily eat crow if he isn't but I put the chances he is back at less than 5%. I also don't have any issue moving on from both. But I'd probably try and find a pay cut I can live with for Tre first.

He literally didn't belong on an NFL field this year and he is about to turn 35. The odds are slim to none.

On Von - literally anyone. He was hopeless this year and I have zero faith in his ability to return to form. He couldn't move let alone rush. On Tre.... I think Douglas played pretty well. But I still think an 80% Tre White is an upgrade on him. He remains comfortably our best corner IMO. And his game against Miami in which he got injured he was outstanding. I feel reasonably confident he can get back. I wouldn't take that chance at the current deal. But if he is willl to take a pay cut I would and there is reason to believe he would.

I know he interviewed here really badly as part of the Rex process. It lasted less than half an hour and the Pegulas hated him. I think he came across as arrogant.

There really are no nasty ramifications though. The money they are on the hook for next year they are on the hook for if they cut him today, on 1 June or after next season. The question is just do you pay him $23m to be here or do you pay him $16m not to be here and pocket the difference for a player who contributes more. And I don't consider Tre an underperforming player. The last game he played for the Bills was literally one of the best 5 performances in his career here. Okay, it took him 8 or 9 games to round back into top form after his last injury and now he has another injury to try and bounce back from but I still think there is a lot of good football left in Tre and at even 80% of his best he is the best corner on the Bills.