GunnerBill

I have been trying to make this point since last seasons started. A year ago people were saying: "Gabe Davis is our #1B we basically have two wide receiver 1s" I said - no he's not - he's a #2. This year people are saying: "Gabe Davis isn't good enough to be a WR2 he should be WR3 or WR4." And again I say - not true, he is a WR2. People take these wild and slightly mad positions rather than looking at the evidence and taking a sound position. As for the idea of trading him, which has now come up twice in a week. He is going tl get paid. Possibly by the Bills or most likely by someone else in FA next spring. Which would net the Bills possibly a 3rd but certainly a 4th round comp pick. So sure you could trade him for that now and bring that pick forward from the 2025 Draft to the 2024 Draft but you have willingly made a team in a Superbowl window weaker to do that. It makes no sense.

No. In fact I think the 9-8 record last year flattered them. Of their 9 wins, 6 were by one score. I think their OL is bad. Tua even when healthy has limitations. I think they have a soft centre on defense. Their linebackers couldn't cover a book. And that is before the star defensive acquisition goes down at the start of camp. Equally their offense slowed down the 2nd half of last season as people got tape on how McDaniel was using their players. I know everyone will say "ah yea, but that's cos Tua was out. But his first seven games (excluding the one he left early concussed and did not return) the Dolphins averaged over 29 points. The final four games Tua started they averaged only just over 20. I expect Fangio will make the defense slightly better, the offense will be slightly worse. They will go 8-9 or 9-8. They will not be a playoff team.

I won't reply to all of this because some of it is irrelevant to the conversation. I don't understand how you think I am being inconsistent. I never put Salgado down as being inexperienced. I never said Danna would be better. In fact I explicitly said I have no knowledge of him at all really - I did point out he is more experienced but I made no value judgment on whether that was better or worse. Nor do McDermott and Beane know that he is better. As far as I can tell they have never worked with him, so it will be a bit of a journey of discovery and they will have to evaluate him on his work as they go. I am not, and have not, said that McDermott and Beane have never made a mistake. Hell I have called them out many, many times on this forum for decisions they have made that I have disagreed with, particularly in terms of personnel. Of course the fact that they promoted Salgado a year ago and then fired him a year later suggests the promotion was not the right decision. I have never argued otherwise. I have said the safety play was not good last year but I have also said repeatedly it is hard to know how much of that is really attributable to Salgado given other factors. However, fan takes on whether the firing of a safeties coach was justfied or not are, by definition, less informed than decisions made by people who have actually watched him work with his players. Of course McDermott and Beane might still have got it wrong. But it does come down to I trust them, you don't. And of course you don't have to trust them. You are free to form a different opinion but the reason I have continually objected to your posts in this thread is because you have now twice sought to make assertions to support your "thrown under the bus" narrative that are simply not true. First it was the claim that Salgado had been in charge of some of the best units in McDermott's tenure, when in fact he only became safeties coach a year ago. Then you sought to argue that there was something unusual about the timing of the Salgado firing which was also factually incorrect. Your argument therefore rests on: 1. He was the coach of a unit missing one of its stars and with another restricted; 2. He was the only coach fired. I don't disagree with either of those points but they don't takr you far enough to prove your argument. And I think you know that which is why you have tried to bolster it by asserting the other things, which are not true. As for the Bills prospects for the season, I too think the OL has the chance to be the best that Beane has fielded (and I say Beane because I do think the OL struggles have been about talent not about anything else). I also think it is likely the defense takes a step back. Not least because they have been a top 6 defense for 4 of the past 5 seasons and that run is incredibly difficult to maintain. The Legion of Boom were top 5 for five years in a row and top 10 for six years in a row which is the best run in the last 15 years. The Steelers managed five in a row in the top 10 at the end of the last decade. The Bills are at 4 out of 5 and those 4 have all ranked 6th or better. The reason it is hard is because guys age out - Hyde and Poyer; you lose guys to FA - Edmunds; guys get hurt and are not quite the same - White last year certainly qualifies he has a lot to prove in 2023 and there will be a question mark around Von too. And it isn't like offense where if you have an elite QB your floor is pretty high even if you do lose 3 or 4 guys. On defense if 3 or 4 of your better players leave or are diminished your production will suffer. Add that to what looks on paper a tougher slate of QB opponents and I do think it is reasonable to expect a slide back. I still expect them to be somewhere in or around the fringes of the top 10, because I know McDermott to be a very good defensive mind and they still have a lot of good players on that side of the ball even if, Milano apart, it is hard to point at any of them who are slam dunks to play at a high level in 2023 for various reasons. So while I might not agree with "massive" step back, I do think it is likely the Bills are worse than 6th in total defense in 2023.

At least Ramsey will have access to a pro S&C team. I had 6 months to eat, drink, do almost no exercise and put on a stone in weight.

I wasn't arguing that. Just arguing the often differing standards are frustrating.

I agree if you are applying the rule book properly that is a penalty. It is my biggest complaint with NFL refereeing. I don't moan "too many flags" yadda, yadda, I moan about the seemingly inconsistent situational standards. Not saying the Bills would have won the 2020 AFCCG otherwise, the Chiefs were better than us, but I had got as familiar as Ward did with the inside of Stefon Diggs's jersey that day I'd be on a charge.... and the official line on the officiating crew was "they wanted to let them play because it was the championship game." That baffles me. Equally the normal "turn a blind eye it is the final 2 minutes and the game's on the line" is hard to explain. Just referee the games by the book week 1 to Superbowl Sunday, minute 1 to minute 60.

The call at the end is a penalty 9 times out of 10. The issue is the 10th is normally inside the final 4 minutes of games where the refs generally try and let the players play and especially so in the post-season. Remember that was the only defensive hold called in the entire Superbowl. If that flag was thrown with 14 minutes left to play, everyone says "yea, soft, but by the letter a penalty" and moves on with their day. James Bradberry himself accepted after the game he tugged the jersey, knew that was a hold but was hoping given the situation they'd let it slide. But when a soft "technical" penalty like that basically decides a game that good, in the Superbowl..... everyone, except Chiefs fans understandably, felt like it was anti-climactic. EDIT: reminded me a bit of the Bills - Rams game early in 2020 when Gabe was held on 4th down in the endzone at the end. That was a similar one. Soft, but a technical foul. You just don't expect them called in that situation, that late, game on the line.

Could not have been said any better.

I thought it had been 2 for a while?

I am not a "I always want to play against the best" guy. I'd take beating the Bears practice squad if it means the Bills winning a Superbowl. I don't feel sorry for other teams when their guys go down, it is part of the game. I do, however, feel sorry for the players themselves on a basic human level. I'd had a hernia fixed, ankle surgery and a miniscus repaired by the time I was 24 and it basically finished my semi-pro soccer career. I empathise with the physical and mental toll it takes.

Of course. And I'd be willing to ignore that if it was the only red flag. It wasn't.

But it was production at a low level. If his production had been in a power 5 conference I can completely see look at the speed, look at the production, ignore the usage and ignore the size. But there were more cons than pros for me. I never got it then and I still don't.

Russell Wilson #3? Come on now....

Well clearly he didn't. But he should have.

Yea if someone had taken a flier in say round 4 I'd have thought "bit rich but I get it". Round 2 was mental. Small school receiver, used as a gadget guy and, 5'9, 180 something? Wow.

One of the MOST overhyped draft prospects ever. Should have gone rounds 6 or 7. Went round 2. Mental.

He can fall into my lap if he does..... 😍

Like Christmas morning when I have a Beane presser to listen to on my morning commute. They are normally about 25 mins as well which is the perfect time for getting to my office.

Was the free gift a signed EJ jersey?

Happy Birthday Brandon! He is just so darn likeable. His pressers are always informative and pretty candid for an NFL exec. Even when he tries to play things close to his chest he is bad at it, the honesty is refreshing. I don't love all of the moves in recent years, but I do love the guy.

Agreed, in that it was last season (and tbh the season before). I have a bit more optimism about their moves this year on the OL but totally reasonable to say "believe it when I see it."

I suspect they are both before my time.... 😂

I don't apply them inconsistently. Salgado's firing was announced 4 days after the season ended. That is absolutely within the bounds of normal practice. The Monday after a playoff loss is locker clearout day and exit interviews with players. Ordinarily the Tuesday is then a day off, which one imagines is a chance for everyone to collect their thoughts then the Wednesday they do the season wrap up with the coaching staff which tends to be when firings of coordinators or position coaches occur. I suspect Salgado was informed on the Wednesday that he was being released and it took until Thursday for the news to reach the media and even if it didn't happen until Thursday that is literally the second day when it could happen. The reason Frazier happened later is that he was not fired. He chose to walk away. It appears based on the leaks and rumours we have that McDermott informed him in the end of season meetings that he was intending to get more involved in the defense (and potentially play calling) in 2023 and Frazier pondered that and, a few weeks later in February after the first week off he had since July, decided he'd rather step away in those circumstances. EDIT: I also, without throwing my source under the bus, know for a fact that Frazier's decision to go was his own. The extent to which he felt the team gave him no option might be debatable. But he stood down. On "corrective action" I am old school. I am also a coach. I don't believe corrective action always means firing someone. That is a modern way of thinking that is driven by social media and mob mentality. Nobody doubts 13 seconds was a screw up by the coaching staff. And someone, Heath Farwell, was ultimately let go (again though it wasn't the only major special teams gaffe in 2021 and I don't think that decision was just about what happened in Kansas City though clearly it played a part). But I don't think the result of every disappointing playoff loss should be someone gets fired. You have to divorce the emotion, take a step back, and in a cool, collected and sober manner look at the big picture. I agree with you on Dorsey - and you will note - I said it was impossible to know how much accountability Salgado deserves for the drop off given injuries and inexperience. I'm not arguing that I know that and he deserved firing. What I am saying is that I trust McDermott and Beane who was observed him coaching his unit day in day out. Agree, Taron Johnson is one of the better nickels in football and he must have done a decent enough job coaching him the two years prior to get promoted to safeties coach. But I trust the GM and HC because they know things I can't possibly know and none of us can unless we were at practice every day. You are entitled to not trust them if you like, that's your opinion. But I still don't think that gets you to "they threw him under the bus" after the playoff loss, which is kind of where you started.

If I'd realised I'd have gone for Derek Anderson, Rich Gannon and Orton. EDIT: re-ran my other answers with those 3 QBs that gets me down to 240.

Me neither but will know for next time. My obscure answers were Matt Schaub (Falcons and Raiders) and Andy Levitre (Falcons and Bills).