GunnerBill

Yea he was just serviceable. He had become the go to gun for hire when teams had an urgent need.... started a few games for KC in their year of multiple QBs, started for Dallas during one of Romo's injuries and then came here to start when they realised in camp that EJ was all over the place. There is always at any time a guy like that in the league. It is probably Baker Mayfield at the moment.

And depend on the Bills peaking at the right point in the post season. Even with all the injuries they were 13-3 last year and lost those 3 by a combined 8 points. They then played their worst game in the playoffs. You can't do that.

And Losman, and Peterman, and Brohm. No one was confusing Orton with a long term answer but as a stopgap on a team that otherwise around him had enough talent to make the playoffs - ferocious pass rush, decent secondary, weapons at receiver... he at least gave that team a shot. Had theystuck with EJ they wouldn't have had that shot. Had the started Orton week 1 they likely make the playoffs.

Don't think the bolded is fair. The rest is. Hyde and Poyer have been extremely durable during their time here. Poyer has barely missed a game even if he played hurt a lot last year and Hyde has had just one big injury. The other questions are totally the right ones.

True, but I think that is all superficial and face value. When the going gets tough Aaron Rodgers isn't the guy I'd want. Despite his all-worldly talent. They were only 1-2 when he did the whole R-E-L-A-X thing. And whether he took a pay cut or not depends how long he plays. If he plays the entire contract he didn't take a paycut. I don't expect he will so in practice he probably will have left $35m on the table. But he took a guarantee cut not an overall value of the contract cut.

And probably a bit of all 3.... plus Rodgers's general level of interest which was low to middling last season. That is my biggest thing on the whole Jets hype train. Their schedule is a tough start with an easier home stretch. If they are 2-5 or something Aaron Rodgers isn't gonna be a Tom Brady that goes around that locker room and fires guys up to get better. He will sit in a corner, sulk, and become disengaged. Because that is who he is.

Orton was NOT one of the worst two QBs we have had in decades. That is a crazy take. 2013 where they had EJ Manuel, Thad Lewis and Jeff Tuel that might be legit the worst QB room of any team in my 20 plus years watching the NFL. But Orton in 2014 was a serviceable NFL starter. Not a superstar, by any means, but a serviceable starter. And to be fair with zero run game to speak of Hackett managed to get production out of that offense. Behind Fitz, Tyrod and half a season of Bledsoe he was the 4th best of the drought era. My main issue with Hackett when he was here was his total unwillingness to pass on first down.

I promise you they are there on Taron. That is our only point of disagreement here. I know the names in a 2 ILB system are Mike and Will. Not everyone on the board understands stuff the way you do. I was trying to keep it simple for people. Getting bogged down in when a Will actually plays weak side and it is just a position name isn't particularly user friendly to 80% of the board.

I disagree with your last point. Taron plays as ostensibly a strong side linebacker a fair amount. PFF had it as about 20% of defensive snaps in 2022. I put base in inverted commas because I agree the Bills' base is nickel. But people often use base as a way of distinguishing a 43 from lining up in nickel. And my point on Milano was exactly the one you make he lines up on the strong side a ton in nickel.

I am not arguing Marlowe is any sort of stud. He is a backup level safety. The Lions gave him a deal to be a starter and soon realised he isn't that and moved on. I just think Hamlin wasn't actually brilliant before what happened happened. He also to me looked like a backup doing a starter's job because that is what he is. I agree if it is close Hamlin will get the edge. And that is what I expect to happen. But I do think that is the competition for spot #4.

Maybe. I think Marlowe is a tad underrated by a lot of fans. I think it is pretty close.

I don't think he will be the starter. But I repeat I only see him being cut and placed on the PS if the Bills feel really good about their starter and, call me a pessimist, I am not sure how that happens. I think the winner of the competition will start, one of the losers will be cut and Klein will be on the 53 as the insurance policy. @PBF81 - while I don't think AJ will end up on the PS he IS eligible. You can have guys with as many vested years as you like on the PS now. That has been the rule for a while - since 2016. But there are a limit on the number of those guys. It started at 2 but is now up to 6. So basically you can keep whoever you want these days as long as they don't get signed to someone else's active roster.

Poyer can legit play both. He played FS most of last year. He played more FS his first two years with the Bills too. But I agree Hamlin and Rapp are more SS than Marlowe.

It is Hamlin or Marlowe. I think Hamlin will get the benefit of the doubt if it is close. If Marlowe clearly beats him out then it is what it is.

No I did mean Detroit. Having checked he only played a handful of snaps you are right, in my head he played more than that because I remember thinking he was much better in terms of his eye discipline and his positioning. But accept having checked the numbers probably too small of a sample size to draw any firm conclusions.

That is all fair but not even sure we were a middling line last year. We were flat out bad. Getting back to middling would be progress.

Oh Bernard was terrible when he got on the field. He couldn't line up right, he couldn't hit his gap, he couldn't tackle, he couldn't run, he couldn't cover. Now I get it - limited sample size. And he was a rookie. But he looked totally overmatched and overwhelmed against the Jets. Based on what they showed on the field last year he has a significant gap to close to even be on a par with Dodson. EDIT: I don't hate the Evans idea. It would be a learning curve for him playing in a 4-3 though. He has played his entire career in a 3-4. not sure he is exactly a pick up this late, plug and play option.

He sucked in that game. Watch the next week against Detroit when he started again. He played much better that day. I agree I don't really think he is starting quality. He is a backup level player. I fear he may be the best of the bunch though unless they want to go pure placeholder with Klein and it looks like they don't. Unless of course this camp battle is to narrow it down to a winner who then competes with Klein in pre-season?

This is a great point. One I'd not given a lot of thought to actually, but both Singletary and Zack Moss who we traded mid-season were very good pass protectors. Harris is solid in that regard but Cook struggled as a rookie. In his prime Latavius Murray was a very good pass protector. One of the best in fact. Hopefully he retains that ability. That might get him on the 53.

Agree to an extent on WR. The reason I tend to see it as slightly upgraded is that last year we were one injury away from Jake Kumerow starting on the boundary and by week 2, hey presto, there was Jake Kumerow starting on the boundary. When he went down around Thanksgiving we re-signed the corpse of John Brown's football career because we had no other options split wide. I am not arguing that Sherfield or Harty are stars, but both of them have more flexibility to play split out than McKenzie, Crowder or Shakir. So at least there is a bit more flexibility to the depth. I feel like they have raised the floor of the top 5 receivers, though I don't think they have raised the ceiling unless a guy like Shorter emerges from nowhere.

It is only MLB that I think the team is definitely weaker on paper. The issue is I think that drop off is significant..... don't love any of our options there now that they have concluded it is too much for Williams as a rookie. I also think there remain questions about the secondary just because three older guys coming off injuries to differing extents is a legit concern. I hope they can play good football and stay healthy but it isn't a sure thing.

Agree that the job comes down to these two, but I am not sold that they both make the team. If it is a close run battle where neither really wins the job so much as the Bills decide to go with the least worst option then I remain of the view that they will keep Klein on the 53 as the insurance policy and the loser of the starting battle will be out. Agree. I don't think he is a starting MLB option either in 2023. As I said to @HappyDays for Klein to be stashed on the PS I think they have to feel pretty good about the guy that has won the starter battle. I just don't have a ton of confidence that they will be. My guess is Dodson starts (agree re. subpackages), Klein is the backup MLB and Bernard is the odd man out.

Dodson is the clubhouse leader IMO. I have felt that throughout. He was very poor against Cleveland last year when he started, but he rebounded well the next week against Detroit and he had a decent game vs Pittsburgh on his other start too (albeit they were bad). I think he was better than Bernard was when he got on the field. I don't love the Dodson idea because he struggles in coverage IMO, but I think Bernard struggled with everything.

And ST play at Clemson, yep.

Fair, but it is a spectrum IMO. From "really worried about the other options Klein stats" to "completely confident, we don't need Klein". They would need to be closer to the latter along that spectrum for the practice squad to be the way they go. Especially as I think you only get 3 free elevations don't you?