GunnerBill

The only thing they have to watch back at the moment is 5 minute highlight packages of each pre-season game. This seriously sucks. Game Pass wasn't perfect but this is utterly woeful.

Yea Ankou looked to have a good game. That doesn't surprise me at all. The competition is ongoing. I say that in my post. But I also think Dane is ahead. How long they kept Elam in there says to me they think he needs the reps. Elam could start next week, but tbh I expect Dane to.

They could. Would have to look at the deal to work how attractive a trade prospect he is for other teams.

If he is back to anything close to his best he is a lock. Fingers crossed that is the case.

If Tre isn't back to something like himself they will cut him after 2023. He can save them up to $10m in space.

And Dane isn't under contract for 2024. Could be Elam and Benford.

Agreed but that penalty yesterday was the former. I don't think it affected position at all.

No you misunderstand me. It is very clear signing cut players doesn't count.... what is less clear is if a player who signs a contract which, at the end of the qualifying period, is considered a qualifying contract is then cut without playing on that contract - so like if Keenum is cut when the Texans cut to 53.... does he still count against the formula? There was definitely a year either 2019 or 2020 when the Ravens cut a qualifying player (or two) at the end of camp and brought themselves back into the black so far as comp picks are concerned.

Trades don't count you are right, because in essence he takes that qualifying contract with him. Players being cut in camp has knocked them out of consideration in previous years though. Don't know if it still does (and the exact formula is not published by the league) but there was a year the Ravens looked like they were on for no picks by the projections all summer and then cut like 3 of their lower level FA signings at the end of camp and ended up with a pick.

They got starting reps last year and will again. But I agree that platooning starter in year 2 isn't what you want from a 1st rounder. I do think ultimately that pick is the one where there felt most disconnect between McD and Beane. Cos he is the guy they drafted. It is not like he is Zay Jones who was a terrific catcher in college and got the dropsies in the NFL. Elam is who he was. If they don't like that then why the hell did they draft him in the 1st round?

Appreciate the correction on Boettger. You are of course right. Achillies not ankle. My bad. On Bates, yea I did acknowledge there isna chance they go back to that next week but I am not sure. I think then your rookie guard goes out and plays like that you are well advised not to worry about how your average previous starter looks or feels. I'd start Cyrus again next week with Josh behind him and I am only taking him off the field for Bates if he struggles. I think the signs are pointing towards Torrence being the starter. On Van Demark getting one series with the 2s then them putting Quess in... I wonder that too. Could be something as silly as Quess wasn't ready to go when the 2s got called or there was a miscommunication. That stuff does sometimes happen in pre-season! Agree on Boogie v Shaq. And you might get Shaq on the PS. You wouldn't get Boogie. If the evaluation is at all similar you keep the higher ceiling younger guy. I do expect them to keep 10 DL though. I thought McDermott sounded pissed with Kyle. Just listened to it an hour ago. For McD who gives you nothing those comments equate to positively seething. I don't really want Barkley as our #2 but at the moment I think they have to seriously allow him to compete for it. That likely means first in with the 2s next week. But they should do everything they can to explore alternatives this week. Work out who might end up on the street after cutdowns. Who might be tradeable....

Tell Josh Allen he is QB and backup OC. Leave the GMing to someone else.

Williams can't get on the field until he plays the run better. Which was, as I think @Shaw66 was alluding to, what kept Milano off the field early in his rookie year. I do think ultimately Milano playing the middle and Williams as the will is a sort of post-thanksgiving, post the late bye, type move they could make if they have been struggling. Thanks and I agree with all if this. I don't think AJE played much though.. maybe 1 and a half series. On Elam I'd be more courageous there than I think they will be. I totally agree with your take on how they likely see it. I just think if you want to knock those edges off Elam the kid has to play. He isn't learning it stood on the sideline.

Hmm. I suspect they want Case as the vet backup. But maybe you are right.

Mills is my target. Think @Kirby Jackson was the first to mention it and it makes so much sense.

If I was me and I was Brandon Beane I'd work the phones immediately trying to upgrade at backup QB. I don't think you can look at that last night and say "yea, we're good."

Two good throws and two dump offs. Although the second of those good throws (which I agree Barkley can't make) I was harsh on originally. I thought he'd read it wrong because essentially he ends up throwing into almost double coverage but I take that back was the right play. And the other good one to Shakir was fine but it was higher than it should have been and needed a good catch. The other two are a dump off to a RB and a simple shallow crosser. His fundametals were dreadful.

He made two. One of which was a nice throw off a clearly bad read. I know it is Buffalo and I know weather but fundamentals > arm every time. And his fundamentals were atrocious. Yep. That is what I saw as well. He didn't get beat. He got very clearly fouled. Was an obvious facemask penalty. I am all but certain when the Bills staff review they will just put a line through that play.

McGovern was what you'd expect. Really steady. I'd say he held his point in the run game more than blew people off in the way Cybo did. But he was plenty good enough for a first outing. There is no question he starts IMO (though Edwards was decent too with the 2nd team). On Rapp - not really. I will confess I was focussed much more on the trenches yesterday.

That is very fair. Have changed the "he" to "Cyrus". I wrote most of it late last night. Apologies because that was definitely not clear. Evans I think could be a PS guy depends how many backs they want to keep. He also could be in the returner mix though. I think he has no shot at the roster as a runner. As for AJE they could do it that way. But the story from camp has been AJE has bee good and Boogie has struggled and with this regime they have tended to weigh camp in heavier than pre-season games with vanilla schemes etc. Wouldn't be shocked if AJ was traded. But I'd be a tad surprised.

That is definitely true. He has a much better arm. And I think it is why the Bills want him as the #2. With Barkley's arm you have to re-design so much of the scheme. Take plays out. Turn into a drop, step, go team. But Kyle Allen was a disaster last night. The numbers are bad and I think the numbers flatter him. As @BADOLBILZ said he easily could have had another turnover. Shakir maybe not. Shorter, possibly. But it is risky trying to stash a guy like that. I think he'd make it through, but I don't know he would. So if you retain any hope for him the 3rd pre-season game injury stash - see Hodgins, Stevenson, Vosean Joseph as previous examples - is the way to go.

Back by absolutely no popular acclaim it's Gunner's pre-season good night bad night thread. A sort of "Sal's arrow up / arrow down" but for the thinking man . The Bills made it 11 wins from their last 12 pre-season outings with victory over the Colts but what did it mean for those position groups and players where questions abound. Here's my take: Good Night for... The Running Backs - First things first, this is James Cook's job. All the "he can't be an RB1" naysayers are about to be proven wrong. Not only did he have a touchdown run on a nicely set up and executed (loved Trent Sherfield's block) outside rush but he showed nice burst and toughness running inside on a couple of plays too. I think he has better vision than the guy he is replacing and while I am fine with giving him a few snaps with Josh just to make sure they have mesh points down etc, I don't need to see much more of him this pre-season. Behind Cook Latavius Murray (whose roster spot has felt safe since a jet ski took care of Nyheim Hines' knee) took advantage of Damien Harris's absence to show he still has some burst in those old legs and Jordan Mims (highlighted in my sleepers thread before the draft) took his opportunity too. He might have only averaged 3.3 yards per carry, but he had a couple of nice bursts and a catch and run that showed his natural feel as a receiving back. He isn't a breakaway speed home run hitter but his vision really stands out and he sees the right gap instinctively. I don't think he will make the 53 but if the Bills are able to sneak him through to the PS he is someone more than able to step in if Harris's injury troubles catch up to him again. O'Cyrus Torrence - I think this competition is over guys. The job is won. O'Cyrus Torrence got the start at right guard after battling Ryan Bates in camp and he took every snap with the first team unit and then stayed in there for a couple of drives with the second team. Bates played exclusively as the second team center. And boy did Cryus take the opportunity. He was a significant part of the Bills' early run game success. He moves people at the point of attack and while tougher tests will lie ahead in pass protection this was a really impressive first outing. Isn't impossible that the Bills revert to Bates at guard week 2, but I think it is trending strongly towards the rookie being the guy. Boogie Basham - The one place where I think the Bills are guaranteed to cut someone who makes another NFL roster this season is defensive line. They have 5 proven vet tackles (Jones, Oliver, Phillips, Settle, Ford) and 6 proved vet edge players (Von, Groot, AJE, Floyd, Boogie and Shaq). I don't think they can keep 11. Shaq is the "easiest" cut of those but he has played a very specific role for the Bills in the past as an edge setting end and so I was leaning towards Boogie maybe being traded. But he was active yesterday, made a couple of nice run stops and had a sack. He hasn't flashed much in camp so it was a performance he needed. Ryan Van Demark - The former UConn tackle came into the NFL as an UDFA of the Colts last year, but after being let go in final cuts declined an offer to join the Colts Practice Squad in order to join the Bills. After a year on the practice squad I have seen Astro's camp reports mention him a couple of times as a guy who has had some run with the 2nd team O Line in camp. Yesterday he was the left tackle on the 2nd line for the first drive that line was in. Then Quess replaced him but he came back as the left tackle of the 3rd line, switching to the right side when the luckless Tommy Doyle got hurt. It's fair to say tackle depth behind the starters is a question on this roster, but Van Demark looked good at both spots last night, and if there is a player who I would have told you a week ago had no shot at the 53 that I'm now seeing a path for - he is the guy! The bottom of the roster receivers - Where do we stand receiver wise? Diggs, Davis and Sherfield are locks based on camp reports and pre-season usage. I think based on contract and skillset Harty is a lock too. Shakir is close to a lock but not quite there. He had two nice plays last night and then an awful drop on a potential 3rd down conversion. After that there is a a spot to shoot for. I thought Shorter might have the inside track given draft status and special teams but I am pretty sure he didn't get first run as a gunner last night (I think Ingram was one and I presumed Neal was the other.... but the useless new gamepass international doesn't have the full game replay up yet so I can't double check). He also had zero targets in the pass game though I think was mainly out there with Kyle Allen. The guys who flashed were Andy Isabella, Tyrell Shavers, KeeSeanJohnson, Marcell Ateman and Dezmon Patmon who finshed as the Bills five leading receivers on the day. All of those except Shavers are former draft picks of other NFL teams so Shavers might be the most intriguing as an untapped potential guy but he did get hands on (and should have caught) the ball what went for a pick 6. Essentially I think that there might still be a battle on for the Bills' 6th receiver spot. Bad Night for... Kyle Allen - Wow he was bad. Allen made a couple of nice throws but generally he just looked so uncomfortable back there. It looked like a guy who doesn't understand the offense, doesn't understand his reads and has no feel for the position. His feet were never settled, he was constantly moving even in pretty good pockets and twice he actually moved himself into pressure when if he stayed where he was and kept his eyes downfield he had oodles of time to make a throw. He played frenzied like a guy for whom it was all happening too quickly. The interception was mainly on him. Sure, Shavers should have caught it, but he threw a 5 yard receiver screen 3 yards off target. How the ***** is that possible? He was horrible. Not helped by the fact that as soon as Barkley stepped in he immediately looked comfortable, was just dropping back, executing reads and getting the ball out of his hands. Okay Allen played against starters and 2nd teamers; Barkley played against 2nd teamers and 3rd teamers but Allen was 8/15 with an INT and Barkley was 14/15 with 2 TDs. At the moment Kyle Allen is the 3rd best Quarterback on the roster. Kaiir Elam - Not so much that Elam was awful, he wasn't. He got called on one defensive PI that I thought was a little ticky tacky. There was a little grab and by the letter of course that is a penalty, but he left go before the ball arrived and in pre-season not sure that needed to be called. But Dane Jackson got the start and in his 1 series had an interception. They then brought Elam in for the second series with the 1s and while I think that means the competition is still live (contrast their approach at MLB and RG the other two big competition spots in camp) the fact that Elam then stayed on the field throughout the 2s run suggests to me that it is a competition he is behind in. They never switched Jackson back in which says to me they are happy they know what they have there. Unless Elam starts next week I think we can start to call time on this competition. Ike Boettger - Man that was a tough watch. I have been an Ike guy since the Bills picked him up as an UDFA out of Iowa back in 2018. He was a classic Iowa lineman, tough and well coached technically even if he lacked the physical attributes to stand out. And in 2020 (in particular) he played really well for the Bills as a starter for much of the year. He was then a serviceable backup in 2021 before breaking his ankle late in the year. And while he played a handful of snaps at the end of the blow out in Chicago last year this was his first proper run since and he just does not look the same guy. He could barely move out there, didn't seem to have any confidence pushing off the ankle at all and was beaten on multiple plays. Maybe it was just a bad night, but it does kinda reflect what we have heard from camp. I suspect he is going to be a painful cut for the organisation when the time comes. I am told he is a really popular guy in the locker room. Jace Sternberger - It was really interesting to note that the Bills ran a TON of 12 personnel with the 1st team offense and the 2nd team offense last night. Again once the full game replay is up I'll try and go back and count but I reckon it was something like 60% of their snaps with the first two units. Kincaid and Knox were out there together and the Quintin Morris and Joel Wilson were the combo for the second unit. That means Sternberger is 5th of 5 on the depth chart and when he got his shot he caught a nice pass, and immediately had it knocked out for a fumble. I was excited about his addition given his USFL success and the fact I liked him coming out of Texas A&M in that same draft as Knox. But he faces a major uphill battle to make the team now and even the PS doesn't seem a guarantee. The Linebacker Shuffle - As expected Tyrel Dodson got the start at MLB. He did okay in the run game, was in on a couple of tackles, but he didn't inspire much confidence with his zone drops against the pass. He looked a bit like what he is. A backup level player who isn't a liability out there but is noticeably not at the level of much of the supporting cast. He was at least calling the defense when he was out there by the looks of it. He played through with the second unit as well with Dorian Williams who flashed his closing speed and coverage ability in the pass game but also showed with his run fits and taking on of blocks exactly why the Bills have quickly ruled him out of the conversation at MIKE. AJ Klein was the next man through after Dodson and again, looked what he is... an older less athletic guy who is okay moving vertically but struggles moving laterally. At the moment both options in the middle look like compromises. Braylon Spector got some late run with the 3s but was erratic in his play and if he makes this roster he makes it for special teams only. It might have been a good night for Terrel Bernard by virtue of him not playing. Fire away guys.... thoughts, comments, questions always welcome. I will be back with another of these after pre-season game 2!!

There is also no download option. Which is gutting to me. It was one of the features I used the most. Wake up on say a Monday morning (when SNF wasn't the Bills) avoid the score download the condensed 40 minute version and watch on my tube journey to work. The commercial break soundtrack is absolutely ***** awful. By the end of last night I was muting every time there was a break. The menus are just atrocious as well. It looks like tech built in 2002. But there is no other option, sadly. We are stuck with it.

I have always liked Dodson too. I thought he was draftable the year he came out. Was delighted when the Bills signed him as an UDFA - that is all on record on this forum. But the Bills are asking a lot IMO for him to step right in here. And even Klein who is their "vet insurance" guy has made the majority of his career starts as a strong side 'backer in a 4-3 or a weak side 'backer in a nickel look - both with the Panthers and the Saints. He has played the odd game here as the middle linebacker in spot duty but that is basically it. They have a miniscule amount of middle linebacker starting experience on this roster.

There are not only 31 guys who have been starters at MLB before. That is the point vs Dodson. Dodson is a career backup. He has only ever backed up.