GunnerBill

20 is quite good (and it is 20 plus 4 1st/2nd borderlines). I haven't had that many since 2019 which was a pretty good draft when you look back now. So I think it is a good first round. After that it is good in some spots and less so in others. I think OL has decent depth. Safety while it lacks blue chippers at the top is pretty deep. Corner is good early and good late (there is a bit of a lacuna in the middle rounds 3 and 4 sort of area). Then obviously WR is very strong and deep. On the flip side.... horrible tight end class beyond the top two, not a lot of true starting running backs and slim pickings at linebacker. There are three studs at edge, then 1 boom or bust guy, then 3 starting level players and then a LOT of projections and question marks. I only have 10 that I'd take before the end of round 4 currently. On wide receivers in I have 4 and a borderline. But then I have a cluster of them between my 30th best player and my 40th best player. So however it falls I don't expect the Bills to have to reach right down the board to address the position.

I'm out.

I have made my case you have made yours. I have no desire to have one of your long rambling, unweildy "whataboutery" debates on this topic. Got way too much to be doing at the moment.

Ha I was about to say I wouldn't say zero chance Ladd goes before Worthy but you have edited in the meantime. I think it is more likely Worthy goes first of the two because someone will fall for that speed but it isn't zero chance they go the other way around. I actually have a higher tape grade on McConkey and wouldn't shock me if some teams do too but it just takes one GM to look at that speed and say "that is for me."

I am confused with him. I don't think I can touch his grade based on yesterday because I don't think it aligns with the tape. I need to go and do a re-watch of him but for now I'm leaving him where he is on the board. Mid 2nd grade.

Agree. He is better after the catch than Beasley though. Which was always the appeal of Shakir in the draft. He didn't really run routes or play in anything approaching a pro offense at Boise but when you got the ball in his hands he could make things happen. His route running has already come on leaps and bounds from where he was as a rookie but he doesn't have that same instinctual feel for soft spots in coverage that Beasley had. That was what made Beas an NFL player, without it he'd have been a grocery bagger. But his feel and football smarts were elite. You are right about role player. That is where you want Shakir. Not a feature of your offense. A complimentary piece of it.

As I said yesterday even before the Combine I found one well respected guy who had Worthy as WR4. I do not think it is crazy that he is the 4th off the board. Does sort of depend on the team though. Because I am not sure he is Trent Baulke's type. Trent likes BIG. So if Jacksonville are the 4th receiver team it won't be Worthy. If Dallas are... well they like speed he is in play there. There is even part of me that wonders about Miami. I don't think they are in the receiver market generally.... but they love track speed. Would they say "screw the OL we are gonna add Worthy to Hill and Waddle, now try and stop us"? Kansas City I can imagine loving him too.

I like McConkey. I don't like him for the Bills because I think he is a slot at the next level. I think his ceiling is to become basically a #1 receiver from the slot a la Cooper Kupp. But even compared to Kupp he is 3 inches shorter, 20 pounds lighter, his arms are over an inch shorter and his hands are smaller. I am not saying he isn't a guy who can take snaps out wide, of course he can and modern NFL offenses are much more creative anyway and move guys around the formation and you can use him in lots of quick game and let him make plays after the catch. But I don't think he is ever going to be a true outside receiver who can take on press coverage and beat the best corners in the league.

We haven't executed deep throws very well. Josh has to be better at them but having guys better at winning deep can't hurt!

We have to be better at hitting them when we take them.

If I was his agent I'd pull him immediately.

I found one respected guy in my messaging round thisnpast week that had Thomas at #3 ahead of Odunze. Worthy is fast. It is everything else that is the issue.

Hahaha. You might not believe it but @HappyDays is on my list of posters that I always read. I respect all of his views and I believe that he is totally sincere in all of them. I don't always agree but I think he understands football and has considered views whether right or wrong And I totally agree those are red flags. The history of guys who have 1 year of production at that age is not good. I just can't get away from loving his tape. It was love at first evaluation.

I agree with all of this. And the Chiefs DBs get allowed with sexual assault on Diggs in playoff games. I am quite jealous.

Thank you.

Mitchell's day is the most confusing to me. I'd have sworn blind he was 6'4" but ran a 4.5. 6'2" and runs a 4.3. Call me confused.

That wasn't true last year. We saw a LOT of man.

Id love to draft Joe. He is the poundland Josh Allen. Like the Ravens model where Huntley is the poundland Lamar.

He has had a bad day.

Agree on Mitchell. I remain a McConkey sceptic.

It would be a tad high. If they haven't taken a WR round 1 though they might need a small reach. I never had any doubt he was a sub 4.4 guy. The evidence was there IMO. That time for Mitchell is super impressive. With his jumps as well Legette's RAS is gonna come out pretty sweet I reckon.

As of right now 20.

He reminds me so much of a young Stef on tape. He just always seems to separate. He isn't super fast but he understands the nuances of route running and coverage and he gets open. Agree though the drops are concerning. I have a high 3 on him.

I don't get very wrapped up in the kind of "player X is an alpha" type stuff. I am not sure it really amounts to anything but others may feel differently about that. Agree he is going to give you better use of his body on slants and other quick in breaking routes. He will body defenders out better than Gabe but you are running the same route you ran with Gabe to do that. He will just do it better. I do think Coleman would be an upgrade. He just wouldn't be a change of approach IMO. Yea don't disagree with any of that. Is he the type of #1 receiver you want for Josh Allen and this offense though? That is where I still need persuading.

Agree he need to run straight downhill.