GunnerBill

This is also my view with one caveat: we have downgraded at defensive coordinator too. I think Leslie Frazier was horribly underrated by most Bills fans. Blamed for things that were not his fault and given no credit because everyone just said "oh it is McDermott's defense." But neither Sean in his one year wearing two hats or Babich since then have called the defense anywhere near as well as Leslie and the changes they have tried to introduce, the schematic twists on the original recipe have by and large made it worse. So we have less talent and worse playcalling. Those two elements are much more to blame than the fundamentals of the scheme IMO.

Imagine how I feel?!?!

I dreamt last night that he had a game winning pick

The defense this year is bad. But over the years despite the fact that they have had some playoff failures in big spots they have been a good defense. I don't think the scheme is fundamentally bad. Although the way we are trying to play and call it right now is not conducive to being successful.

I suppose the thinking is bit of a backlog at the position but I suppose you are probably right. Golden hasn't taken off yet, Reed is out, Savion is a gimmick player, they have converted Bo Melton to corner and Wicks and Doubs are more complimentary than feature guys. I still like it as an idea though, definitely a call worth making.

If Watson could be had cheap I'd kick the tires. I wanted to draft him and while he hasn't delivered on his potential so far and has had issues staying healthy his skillset is the one we lack.

Yea, I consider Payton more of a Parcells guy too, even though he is a crossover. It is a fair point about the Superbowls, but Reid and McVay have definitely tilted that balance back a bit since the last Belichick one.

Correct, but Belichick isn't from the Walsh tree either. Belichick was from the Parcells tree and there was a point 15 or so years ago where that tree and the Walsh tree were equally as influential in the NFL Head Coaching ranks. And while there are crossover guys - Sean Payton, Brian Daboll, Dan Campbell etc - who feature on both trees the Parcells tree is now a poor second to the Walsh tree in terms of influence over NFL Head Coaches in 2025. You can trace a dozen or so back to Parcells in some form. But 31/32 to Walsh.

As I said above, only Mike Vrabel of the 32 Head Coaches that started this season does not have lineage that can be traced back to Walsh.

He already has a tree. Brian Daboll. Might not be a successful one but it is a branch of the McDermott tree. There is only one NFL coaching tree. It's Bill Walsh (and I think if you want to go back a level higher it is Paul Brown's tree). I did a thread on it in the summer. Every current NFL Head Coach except Mike Vrabel is a descendent of the Bill Walsh tree.

Dungy's win % at Tampa would have been good for 65th all time. That is sort of my point. There are cases, nobody disputes, where a team has changed Head Coach and got over the hump. But having a long ternured coach who is top 15 all time in win percentage but hasn't got over the hump that is pretty much unprecedented. There are arguments to fire McDermott. I am just not persuaded historical precedent is really one of them.

It is. None have had a first time Head Coach and QB groomed in house who together are top 10 all time win percentage. And where the coach alone is top 15. I am not saying that means you can't fire McDermott. But what I am saying is your historical comparisons are meaningless. To be clear I have never made the "who is better?" argument for not firing McDermott. That is a stupid argument. You fire your coach when you think they are not the guy and not depending on who is or isn't available. My point in this thread is the historical comparisons are not really indicative of anything.

That is fair but he wasn't a first time Head Coach. And that Broncos Superbowl team is the worst champion of my fandom. McDermott has hard AT LEAST three teams better than them.

How many of those fired a coach who at the time was top 15 all time win percentage? That is the point. There really is no equivalent for where the Bills are at.

He is who we thought he was. I hated the Josh Allen pick at the time and I am delighted to be wrong. I hated the Keon Coleman pick and am sad to be right.

There is nothing here that I disagree with. But even if they can get Hairston going and Poyer can provide some vet know how they still need Benford to round into form and Bishop to play better. The secondary has been trash so far.

Good. We have been short of them.

Draft strategy, yes he is - though they are very aligned. When Brandon Beane tells you he will always prioritise the defensive line - believe him. He'd be doing that whoever the Head Coach is. But draft selections? No. Beane runs the draft. He owns the picks.

I'm a similar age to you but I have to say while that is possible it is definitely a negative way of looking at things. I am not saying it WON'T turn out that way but it is by no means inevitable that it will. I just don't understand doom forecasting like that when it might never happen.

Strong disagree.

She was also the one who invited the McDermotts onto the yacht. He was her appointment even more so than Terry's. Maybe she would have been more ruthless too, but she was all in on this coach.

I think it was the contract rather than the compensation that put them off but I was on the trade for DK train too. He was the quickest available route to shoring up a major weakness. He is not an all around elite receiver. But the thing he is elite at is the EXACT thing this offense needs most. Separating outside and down the field.

All of that is true. But nobody has lost more playoff games to less talented teams while having an elite QB than Sean Payton. I do think he is a terrific Head Coach (though I don't think he is quite at the cutting edge offensively in the way he used to be) but if it is playoff success we lack I think an honest assessment of his resume suggests the Superbowl year was the outlier.

It is about opportunity cost. The teams who had one year of cost controlled QB lost less opportunity than the teams who had two years of cost controlled QB in the two years of the crunch. The point is not that it made it more difficult for the Bills than the teams who had already paid their Quarteback. Nor is it that this is the reason the Bills didn't win. The argument is the opportunity cost lost was greater for Buffalo, Baltimore, Arizona. Teams who both a) had decided their QB was the guy and b) had two years of cost control in 2021 and 2022 during the crunch.

That is not the argument. I am giving up. I have explained it to you three times and you have missed the point.