GunnerBill

When people say things like "his old form" about Goff what do they mean? His rookie year? 'Cos that year he was legitimately bad. Otherwise he has been a kinda league average Quarterback most years. Yet there seems to follow him a suspicion that he is really bad. He is pretty consistent. In the 90s passer rating, mid 60s % percentage, pretty consistent yards per attempt. I think their issues in the passing are more their receivers than any limitations Goff has (although clearly he has them).

He also had his best OL of his career. It all goes together, protection holds up, provides half a second longer for the receivers to get open, for Josh to release the ball, he gets completions, rhythm and confidence then on the occasion the protection does break he gets out and feels like he can make any throw rather than getting into panic mode. Hopefully the Bills will be better up front this year.

At least one of those from Moore was totally on him. He ran the wrong route. He was terrible last night, probably worse than Toney. Toney had two awful drops but at least he was open. Moore didn't know what he was doing out there.

Yea it is a bit Greg Romanish. All the creativity on display is really in how they make the run game go. Passing game wise it is pretty simple and even slightly vanilla, but he calls a game with good feel Ben Johnson. His instinct for when to be aggressive and when to be conservative is very good.

If Kelce is back and one of their young receivers emerges they will still be a productive offense. But I don't think that guy is Skyy Moore. Could be Ross or Rice.

I agree with this... but I don't see Toney and Moore "bouncing back". I don't think there is anywhere to bounce back to. I think they are what they are. I doubt Toney has 2 drops as egregious as the two last night every week, but a fast guys who can't play football very well is who he is at this point. Moore running the wrong routes..... I feel that might happen a lot this season. If Rice can step up and be at least a legit #2 type that will help.

@Zerovoltz - remember when I told you Taylor was an average right tackle.... when you were still insisting he was the answer at left tackle before Smith signed? In fairness I still think he is better than Andrew Wylie who played that spot last year for KC, so they have got experience working round a poor RT. But yea Taylor was brutal last night. He is what he is. A middle of the road RT who the Chiefs overpaid for.

I thought he was in Nick Bolton's jock more than Mahomes's last night. Compared him to Fred Warner while watching back a play where Montgomery skipped right by him. I didn't even think Bolton played that well.

On the first question, no I don't. He'd need to have like a 1,200 yard 10 touchdown type year where he looked like a #1 receiver in waiting I think for the Bills to consider bringing him back at what he is likely to cost. Do they need to upgrade the #2 position? No they don't need to. I think they need to upgrade MLB. But could they stand to upgrade that position? Yes, and I've been in favour of them drafting a receiver early the last two years when they have failed to do so. Kincaid could well play into that calculation though. If he ends up close to being our 2nd most targeted player in the passing game this coming season and looks like he offers more upside than a Gabe Davis then I think you can move sideways in terms of what you look to bring in as WR2 for the short term.... because you have Diggs and Kincaid as your actual 1 and 2 in terms of targets. But long term you need someone who can be a WR1 beyond Diggs. And I still think the place you find that guy is in round 1 or 2 of the draft.

I mean, pretty much.

Yea Skyy Moore looks a huge whiff at this point. And you could see when he ran the wrong route on that one second half Mahomes was pissed with him. How long Pat can stay patient is going to be interesting. And if he builds some trust in Rashee Rice early you can see him leapfrogging Moore and Toney very quickly.

Yea interestingly when KC lose and he is forced to come out of pom pom waving mode he actually is pretty on the money with his analysis of the problems. But it is like he does that for 1 day and then right back into "Mahomes, world domination baby!"

It might be the worst in the NFL. Sure someone will point some others out but it is really rough. It wasn't good last year even with Juju who had volume but didn't make a lot of huge plays. Kelce bailed the receivers out a lot.

No. No he won't.

I think part of the sense of underwhelming is the expectations were a bit out of whack coming off that KC playoff game from last season. He had over 800 yards and 7 touchdowns. That isn't a bad season for a #2 receiver at all. Yes, he dropped some balls, yes, he didn't show a diversification of his route running but I think expecting that he wouldn't be the same guy he has been was the mistake. This time last year I was getting "why do you hate Gabe Davis?" questions directed my way. Now I'm getting "why can't you see his short comings?" type posts. I'm the one who hasn't changed my stance. It's the narrative around me on these boards that has been all over the shop. My expectations are firmly that Gabe will have 800-900 yards, a catch % of around 55%, and 5-7 touchdowns again in 2023. Because that is who he is. And then someone else will pay him next offseason, he'll get somewhere around $13-14m on the open market. And he'll be a #2 receiver there who puts up 650-900 yards a season depending on the team, the Quarterback and how much they pass.

The first GunnerBill morning after reflections of the season..... Huge win for the Lions. It was the thing missing in their run last year a win against one of the genuine top half dozen teams in football. This is a signature win and it puts them right in the conversation with Philly and San Fran in the NFC. I think they have an excellent young team the Lions, best offensive tackle combination in football, Aiden Hutchinson is a beast (I know we feel like everything good comes to the AFC but imagine the Jags had not over thought it and just taken Hutch in the 2022 draft.... that team with Lawrence coming around would be even more of a threat), St Brown is the best slot receiver in the NFL and Brian Branch had a huge play last night. How he dropped to where he did in a weak draft I have no idea. I think of the Lions top 3 picks (Gibbs, Campbell, Branch) it is Branch who in 3 or 4 years time we will be talking about as an all-pro level player. But there is also a limit to the Lions and it is their passing game. I know a lot will go to Goff but I think his receivers, St Brown apart, are the bigger issue. They need Jameson Williams to get healthy and stay out of trouble. Ben Johnson is an excellent coordinator but his offense isn't particularly creative. He isn't Andy Reid or Kyle Shanahan, what has though is a real solid understanding of his guys, what they can and can't do and he leans into it and has great situational feel in his play calling. I think those are skills that suggest he will transition well when he inevitably gets a Head Coach role. For the Chiefs, the receivers are obviously an issue and the absence of Kelce showed it up. Skky Moore (last year's 2nd round pick) ran at least 2 wrong routes last night on plays where he was targeted, MVS is a #3 trying to operate as a #1 and Justin Watson is being used as the deep threat but is a total JAG. Rashee Rice had a couple of nice plays and a touchdown and I did like him more than most coming out, but it is a lot to stick on his plate, his ceiling is probably a good #2 in any event. And Kadarius Toney.... man he is awful. I have said it every time people have tried to tell me that was a great trade. You know who he is? He is Isaiah McKenzie but with a first round reputation. He will have a big game here or there, he will make a nice play in space sometimes and he has the speed to run away from people, but his feel in the open field is bad, his hands are questionable and his attention to detail is poor. On defense for the Chiefs everyone has talked about them missing Chris Jones for his pass rush. While that is true I trust Spags to be able to scheme pressure. He does it better than almost anyone. Where they missed him more last night was just in terms of control of the line of scrimmage. The Lions dominated up front, especially in the run game. They tried to compensate for that loss by playing less nickel than they normally do and more 4-3 base and that isn't where they are at their best, because McDuffie and particularly Sneed are both at their best when they are playing a mix of boundary and nickel. Sneed especially struggles to hold up as an outside corner on a down in and down out basis and it was noticeable that the Lions went at him in some key situations. Personally I have always felt in games where KC are in a lot of base looks Sneed should play less. Jones being out basically upset the whole balance. The season is off and running!

I am REALLY not doing that. Again stop trying to read things that are not in my posts. You do it all the time and it is really ***** frustrating. Just read the words I write. I write for a living. Words are my currency. When I write something I mean the thing I write. I don't mean the thing I didn't write. If I did, I'd write that instead. Of course Quarterback matters in terms of making the playoffs. It matters more than anything else. I disagree with both your contentions A and B though. Because McDermott is a LOT better as a coach than Marrone. Thst shouldn't even be a controversial view.

This is exactly right. The Bills are not the best around but their record is far from terrible. It's steady. They need to find a couple of stars. Hopefully they can. I don't think Reddick, Highsmith or Judon are monsters. Good players, for sure. Not monsters. Crosby is right on the brink if monster status but Burns and Parsons are absolutely among the best edge rushers in football and you are right, drafted outside the top 10.

I have never denied the fact we have had more talented rosters. My view on 2014 and 2015 is well known. Both those teams were contenders with Josh Allen at Quarterback and probably one or two of the 00s teams too. Where we disagreed on that was my view that of you swapped nothing about thoee teams other than coaching.... I think McDermott would have coached the Bills to 3 or 4 playoff appearances during the drought. Even with what we had at QB. He wouldn't have made them contenders... cos QB matters more than HC. Allen would have made at least the 14 and 15 teams contenders. The point with the 2014 and particularly the 2015 team though is we had invested heavily in a way Josh's contract makes difficult. The '15 team in particular was an expensive team everywhere else and dirt cheap at Quarterback.

Allen, Edmunds, Johnson, Oliver, Singletary, Knox, Davis, Bass, Jackson, Rousseau. They are all good starters drafted by Beane (with no projecting of the next generation of maybe guys). There are not many GMs with a better record of finding starters than that and that is without, obviously, the one that got away in Teller (poor decision but we are just talking about his drafting here). They aren't depth guys they are starters. Two have gone as free agents at the end of their rookie deals, yep, but again I'm looking here just at the drafting. I think every single one on that list is at least a 6 or a 7. They are NFL starters. The problem is Allen's a 10..... I'd make Taron an 8 (and he doesn't start outside because that isn't his skillset, that's the modern NFL nickel is a starting position now and he is one of the very best at it)... but everyone else is a 7 or a 6. And you have to have 4 or 5 starts that are a 9 or a 10 to win in the NFL. Diggs has been a 10 through 3 years. White was a 9/10 consistently until the injury but wasn't close last season and their roll of the dice was with Von.... let's see where he is post a second ACL. I am totally with you that they haven't drafted enough stars. But their record of finding good to very good starters and then solid depth is very good, it is among the best and it is why they score higher on all the draft grading metrics than you would imagine for a team that hasn't drafted an all-pro under Beane other than Allen (and the aforementioned one that got away....). TJ Watt didn't. I know he plays OLB in a 3-4 but there is no reason he couldn't play as a 4-3 end if he was in that scheme. He has all the tools.

I drafted MVS in the final round as well. I don't think he is any good but who else is Mahomes gonna throw to this season?

I wish I'd dropped a lot of weight..... And the ability to download.... that is the thing I am going to miss the most. I used to watch the condensed version of SNF on the Monday morning commute and likewise Tuesday morning and Friday morning for MNF and TNF. But given that I commute on the underground not being able to download is still a significant loss of functionality for me. But still.... small steps in the right direction.

There were some. Definitely. The 2015 roster was, aside from QB the most talented I think I have seen in Buffalo on paper. Sadly not only was the QB underwhelming the coaching was horrible. But at the same time the Bills still have a top 3rd of the league roster even aside from Allen. It isn't as good as San Fran or Philly, or Cincy, or probably Dallas.... but I think it's about on a par with KC.

The reason I don't exclude 6th and 7th rounders is because I wouldn't exclude the successes he has had there - Tyler Bass, Christian Benford (potentially) and Dane Jackson in particular. So don't think it is fair to include the 6th and 7th round hits but not the misses. Though obviously those misses hurt less. Elam and Bernard fair, too soon to say. I think on Moss he can play in the league. He isn't great and he was overdrafted but as a short yardage back, good in pass protection and actually a good pass catcher he is a backup level player. On your final point, actually often they are. It is a really important part of the job. If you can draft the number of starting and solid backup level players Beane has in his drafts that is a way of managing your roster really effectively. GMs who don't do that lose their jobs pretty quickly. I agree drafting stars matters too and I have made this criticism if Beane for a number of years now. Lots of 6s and 7s not enough 9s and 10s. But you only have to look at the depth defensively last year with all the injuries to see that the 6s and 7s do matter, they will enable you to ride our injury crises better than other teams. Without the 9s and 10s they won't win you a championship though.

Rapp is really a box safety too. What they did last year is Poyer played much more as the centre fielder with Hamlin in the box role. I expect Rapp will mainly play in the box and Poyer will play deep if Hyde can't go.