GunnerBill

We have missed on some draft picks. No question about that. I didn't like the Singletary, Moss or Boogie picks at the time we made them. Shakir I did like and it might surprise you to know he played a third of the offensive snaps as a rookie. He wasn't confined to the bench or in the doghouse or anything.... he couldn't separate when he was out there. And he had a woeful camp this year and fell further. He has got the opportunities his play have deserved. Which ain't many.

Yes I said that in one of the other threads. I think the line played pretty well on Monday (especially in pass pro) but Allen bailing clean pockets at the rate he is suggests it is mental for him now and we know, because we have seen it with other QBs before, you put them behind bad offensive lines for a long period they start to drop their eyes to the rush and bail pockets early. And the Bills have fielded bottom 10 offensive lines in 2021 and 2022. I don't think it was so much that teams started playing us differently middle of last year when the realised the line was bad so much as Josh started playing differently to try and compensate for his poor protection. I actually am pretty confident the line is improved for 2023.... not that it will be great but that it can at least be middle of the pack. We need to find a way of re-adjusting Josh to trusting his protection. That final play of overtime when he bailed a clean pocket and ran into pressure by doing so.... that is the sign of a scrambled brain. That pocket confidence and pocket poise needs rebuilding piece by piece. But 100% I agree it has to be in the pot of what has gone wrong since the middle of last year and how do we fix it.

Haven't watched Dorsey's presser yet. Will try and find time to before Sunday.

And only 4 General Managers. But even so when Devin Bush went down injured and came back half the same player their attempts to replace him from within failed to the extent they had to go and overpay a mediocre FA in Elandon Roberts. By the definition some people are trying to paint here if you have a process all your backups should slide in seamlessly.

That is not my definition of the process. My definition of the process is it being about your preparation not outcomes. Trust in your process and the outcomes will follow. It was others who claimed it was about developing backups to play.

So the process only counts if you were drafted by the Bills and only counts if you were drafted after Josh? I'm confused as to your parameters.

Joe Brady is QB coach, yep. I haven't seen one of those.

I think they have missed on some draft picks. Don't think there is any dispute about that. I don't think that is coaching not having guys ready.

His point was young players don't look ready.... they looked pretty ready. If the point he was trying to make is that the two former 6th round draft picks who were our depth at safety last season were not all pros.... well I am not sure that is a reflection on anything other than the realities of salary cap and draft induced parity in the NFL.

Which young player wasn't ready? James Cook? Kincaid? Torrence? Benford? They all looked pretty ready to me.

And I don't even think he is right on the penalty decision.

That, as a former coach, is not what I understand trust the process to mean. I understand trust the process to mean do not fixate on outcomes, because outcomes are ultimately impacted by a degree of randomness. Instead you must trust the process which is are you making the right decisions and working in the right way on a granular level day to do that increase your chance of a positive outcome allowing for the randomness. Basically if you trust in your process on a day to day basis, you practice properly, you look after your body properly, you study film properly, you learn the game plan properly then over time your results will reflect that. We have a phrase over here in the UK... look after the pennies and the pounds look after themselves.... and it is the same principle. Get the preparation right the results will come. The reason it tends to be a mantra of rebuilding teams is because in the early stages if a rebuild quite often the outcomes (i.e. the results) are going to be difficult. It is a way of keeping your players focussed on their improvement. Don't worry that we lost on Sunday, as long as we are getting everything right Monday through Saturday that will eventually turn around.... so trust the process.

It's a fair point - that the last 19 games (i.e. the Dorsey era) is an arbitrary mark. But even if we count Jacksonville as the starting point, he had 4 multiple INT games in his last 12 under Daboll's coaching and since then it is 7 in 19. That is an uptick. It might feel like it is a relatively small change ratio wise but given the small numbers here that matters. But as you are aware, I am not particularly arguing that it is Dorsey's fault. And even if the pattern starts with Jax 2021 I would say the pattern escalates (not the right word but you take my point) with Green Bay last year. It is 6 multiple INT games in 13 since that day. That is where it basically goes from 1 in 3 or close thereto (5 in 18 post between Jax 2021 and GB 2022) to 1 in 2. I think they have to look at everything and Dorsey and his game planning is part of it, but I have to say I think it is mostly (not exclusively) Josh. I don't think he is the same guy. I didn't think he was down the stretch last year, but because the game after Green Bay was the Jets and the elbow injury I just put it down to that. I am worried now. Genuinely worried. Because I think there is something else going on. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than seeing an elite Josh Allen performance on Sunday. Then we can take a breath and say okay it's still there let's build his confidence back up and make sure he has the right support. My concern is we will see another scratchy day where things just don't look right with our Quarterback and the people saying the fix is to give him more easy throws.... well you are right to say they were all there for him on MNF. Dorsey didn't call a perfect game, but there were plenty of chain movers there for Allen on every drive. He just was either not seeing them or deciding not to take them as he bailed clean pockets and forced balls into double / triple coverage.

He has to play better. Simple. Over his past 16 starts he isn't close to an elite Quarterback. We know he has the talent to be that. We know he can perform at that level. But whatever is going on inside his head he needs to re-set and play better. The Bills need to do whatever they can to help him. But his decline in performance at the moment isn't anything to do with having a defensive head coach. He has had a defensive head coach his entire career. I think they showed 4 bench shots on MNF of Allen that I saw. Joe Brady was next to him in 1 of the 4 but as far as I could tell (it was shot kinda from behind) they were not speaking. They were both just staring straight ahead. His presser on Monday night was almost as worrying as his performance. He just sounded totally resigned to the fact that he keeps making mistakes. There wasn't even that sort of frustrated "I gotta fix this." I said it yesterday but I watched the post Jax 2021 presser back yesterday as a contrast and boy.... his body language is noticeably different.

Wilson was still pretty bad on Sunday. It was just check down. Check down. Check down. No vision.

Yea there were actually a fair few positives on Monday. If we can get Josh right we can definitely go on a run.

I don't think that graph particularly helps your case @Beck Water. It shows Josh has had 7 multiple INT games in the 20 Dorsey has been OC. To count back the previous 7 times that he threw multiple picks is 51 games and takes you to the Pats meltdown at the start of his second season. Now I will caveat that point with I don't think all of this on Dorsey or that Dorsey is terrible. I have some concerns over him but I don't think Monday was on him. I don't think that the majority of the blame for Josh's dip since the middle of last year belongs with Dorsey either, though I do think there are schematic things that we need to look at and focus on. I do think at times he has lacked a bit of creativity and his offense is a bit bland. That said, nor is Brian Daboll a genius. I do think he is a very good OC and he got way too much stick when he was here... but this isn't as simple as Daboll = good; Dorsey = bad. There is a lot more too it and I think there is some revisionist history going on here.

Fair enough. Appreciate the explanation. And yes, definitely the fact Tre had two gaps was down to an alignment issue.

In a tight situation like that? Really? I'd be interested to hear more.

I think it is just under a year, but since the middle of last season he has played basically one great Josh Allen game - Miami home in the regular season. Everything else has been scratchy. I think undoubtedly there are multiple contributory factors to that. I certainly don't absolve coaching for all of it. I do think Monday was pretty much solely on Josh. The overall decline in his play you have to look deeper - at the impact that 2 years behind a ***** line has had, at the scheme, at the coaching structure around him.... but I do think there is something off with Josh Allen. At the moment he does not look capable of being the generational talent we know he can be. I maintain that there is something away from the football field that is affecting the kid. He doesn't sound the same. Watch his post Jacksonville presser from 2021 when he was furious with how he had played. Watch the presser from Monday and it was like he was resigned to it. I think he needs a shrink more than a coach.

Bills 19 Raiders 16 Offense still off, the Bills reign Josh in and go conservative. He still throws 1 pick. But then leads a 2 minute drive into FG range and Bass wins it at the buzzer.

I have made criticisms of Dorsey going back to the middle of last season. I'm far from sold on him as a coordinator. I put myself through the pain of the all-22 of that game last night and I really struggled to come up with anything Dorsey could have done much different other than just totally take the ball out of his hands and run Cook / Harris / Murray from the moment of the 2nd pick. The decision making was bafflingly bad. Forget the 3 picks for a moment. There are at least half a dozen other plays where you just scratch your head and ask WTF is he thinking? So to get into the minutiae of play calling from this game just feels like such a side show.

Then he has to play like it.

I am all but certain they told him that.

Yea he just needs to let someone else call the plays in the 4th Quarter of the Superbowl.