GunnerBill

They have the most expensive defense in the NFL. They know defense matters. They are just bad at it. Agree. I am honestly not seeing the sort of coverage @Alphadawg7 is talking about. But then I am not a great watcher of the talking head shows so maybe it is out there. Allen got a LOT of heat for the Jets game - much of it deserved. Any QB turning the ball over 4 times does. Even when a non-elite guy turns it over 4 times in a loss they get media heat so when a top level guy does it of course it is a story. But I didn't see a rush of people saying "Justin Herbert is better than him." Indeed, if Herbert had a 4 turnover game he'd be rinsed too.

Last year the Hoodie embarrassed Wilson. I have picked the Pats to win too.

It is mainly blocking and carries. The Bills oline in 2021 and 2022 was not very good at run blocking. And Moss isn't a speedy back who can get 5 or 6 carries and break one. He is more of a plodder who needs carries to get into a groove. And there is a little bit of scheme thrown in too. The Colts run a lot more from the I with the QB under centre which is a better fit to his style. The Bills are more of a shotgun team where you get the ball on a standing start and have to accelerate quickly - which less Moss's style.

That game is a CLASSIC example of a Justin Herbert game. He had a strange lull in the 3rd and early 4th then played fantastic in the clutch. And his D didn't back him up. On your weapons point.... I think it applies to 2022 and 2023. I accept it applied less to 2020 and 2021. On the other QBs point... I think they'd have all done better. They are better Quarterbacks (or Rodgers was for two of those years). That is different than thinking Herbert is the main reason for the Chargers disappointing record. As I said earlier he is ON the list of reasons. He isn't the top of it.

Yea. He won't get that.

They can and I agree the defense is by far their main issue. But the weapons they have ARE overrated. Keenan Allen isn't what he was and Mike Williams has always been a bit overrated. Personally I have always been a bit of a "Khalil Mack is overrated" guy too. I don't think he is now. I think most people accept what he is now. But at his peak he was overhyped IMO.

I'd have the Atlanta week 4 2017 in my top 5. Four weeks into the job and we beat a team just off a Superbowl appearance who would go to the playoffs again that year and had a really talented roster. I think for instilling a belief in some of the vets that "this time might be different" from some of the other false dawns that was huge. I'm trying to think before that when had we last gone and beaten a really good team on the road (ignoring the week 17 one at the Pats when they pulled the starters)?

Yep. I have said this before. I think he feels they are the most difficult to coordinate against. So has been trying to run one (remember his first OC hire was a disciple of the original Shanahan tree). The Bills have never manages to make it successful. They have called some zone runs the first two weeks.... but they have leant more on the gap scheme that they have generally had more success with. They should keep that balance IMO.

I'm not absolving Herbert of blame. I am just contradicting the "potent stable of weapons" narrative. In my opinion if you want to rank the issues with the Chargers they go: 1. Defensive performance; 2. Head Coach (who has some blame for #1 obviously); 3. Receiving weapons - or more precisely the makeup thereof; 4. Justin Herbert's inability to put complete games together. He is "on the list" he just isn't super high up it.

I don't think they ever had a running back go close to 100 catches in a season let along beyond it. I would also not call Welker or Edelman slot guys that they "sprinkled in." Those guys were the engines that made that offense go. They both averaged 11 yards per reception through their career. Eckler averages under 9. That's the point. Belichick also always had a deep threat guy even if that guy wasn't, beyond the Moss period, their "go to" receiver. At times last year the Chargers had no way at all to stretch the field.

The highest paid defense in the NFL (in terms of cap dollars allocated in 2023).

Yea since the Bills got a top 3 QB we have become very snooty about any QB that isn't and routinely accuse good QBs of sucking

No. They have speed in Deebo and Aiyuk (I know he is hurt atm). Yes they throw to a running back a lot, that is true. And that does make them a bit dink and dunk and I think you saw some of that last night where for part of that game Wink managed to sit on them a bit. But Deebo and Aiyuk at least stretch the field. And McCaffrey averaged 2 yards a catch more than Eckler last year.

That is true, and I think I agree with the not a winner point. Though it is an unconventional way of not being a winner because I think he plays well in the clutch. It is almost like the can't concentrate for an entire 60 minutes. I do think the Chargers weapons lend themselves to being a pile up yards but don't win games offense though. It has no knockout punch.

I don't think the weapons are as good as the names suggest, Eckler apart, and then it comes down to @BADOLBILZ's point about even when you have a really good receiving back if you have an offense designed to throw to your receiving back a ton that is going to turn you into a dink and dunk offense whether you wanna be or not. Eckler's average yards per reception was a pitiful 6.7 yards last year (he was pretty high on that metric earlier in his career). Compare that to Cole Beasley's first two years as Josh's "outlet" receiver here in the slot where he was over 11 yards per catch. If your outlet receiver is a back rather than a slot or tight end it almost always means you are sacrificing yardage.

Yea they don't have a lot of talent. But that playoff season last year will buy Schoen and Daboll some time to execute a rebuild. They need more from their two first rounders of the 2022 draft. They were two really early picks. Thibadeuax did okay as a rookie and had a sack last night but they need more. Neal (who I personally was never that high on) has been a mess so far.

He a daddy.

Nah his contract is pretty easily escapable. A lot of the money in it isn't real money. If the Giants end up bad enough to draft a QB this year they can easily do that without feeling committed to Jones. I actually liked some of what the Giants were able to do to the 49ers on defense. It was a nice gameplan from Wink. He just doesn't have the horses to slow them for a full 60 minutes.

Meh the last couple of tube strikes have been damp squibs. Bad for the morning of the first day and then basically fine. Too many scabs. Let's see.

So a few things on this... First, I have said consistently that even within games Justin Herbert is streaky. His 3rd Quarter stats in particular are poor and I see too many games of his where he goes into a strange lull. Kinda like we had with Josh in 2019... but that was Josh's second year. It isna recurring issue with Herbert that still shows itself. But second, I disagree his weapons are that great. He has two big slow guys and a scat back (a very good scat back but still). It was a major problem for the Chargers last year and has been so far this year.... they don't separate and the have nobody to get deep and take the top off. So defenses just sit on them. Allen is still a crafty route runner but is basically a big slot only at this point he offers almost no downfield threat outside. Mike Williams is Gabe Davis but with a top 10 draft tag. He is a big body, decent in the redzone and you can use him in physical 1v1s on the boundary. But I actually think Gabe offers more deep threat. They drafted Johnston who has 2 catches for 9 yards thus far... they need to try and incorporate him quickly because at least he offers some deep speed (though his game has other holes). And they drafted the wrong guy IMO. Tom Telesco likes big so it was always gonna be Johnston or Kincaid but they should have drafted Jordan Addison. He was the EXACT player that offense was crying out for. He also has some of the worst coaching in the NFL. Brandon Staley is a defensive coach. And the Chargers have more 2023 cap dollars invested in defense than every other team in the league. For their defense to be this horrible with Bosa, Mack, Kendricks, Jackson and James is unforgiveable. So yea Justin Herbert deserves some questioning. He hasn't yet taken that step from super talented playmaking QB to elite level performance QB but his weapons and his coaching are major issues. The one excuse he doesn't have is protection. That oline is stacked.

Yea he'd have made the same play but in a slightly different way, he'd have manouvered an arm angle and slung it. Josh got it there with pure velocity.

That is fair - Motor was good in pass pro. But we have already seen Cook has improved in that facet from where was as a rook. So positive signs.

Agree. The problem is they are asking him to drop back, read the full field and throw. I don't know how anyone who watched him at Ohio State ever thought that was the way to have success with him early in his NFL career. I still say the 49ers should have drafted Fields not Lance. He'd have been better there and he'd have been better for them than Lance was. He plays robotic because he is robotic.... put him in a robotic style where it is process 1 decision and throw. And to think I gave up the dream of being a pro Quarterback without ever trying.

My point is that there are not "many other HBs" who can break out of good tackles. The overwhelming majority of yards after contact by RBs in the NFL come from poor tackle attempts.

Honestly he isn't my type.