GunnerBill

currently doing a stint on UK TV covering the NFL on Sundays.

The first half of this I agree with. It is a low percentage throw and I don't mind him taking the chance, he underthrew it but it is a small and insignificant mistake compared to other things that went on in that game. Doesn't stop me believing Josh played well, certainly well enough to win, on Sunday. I disagree on the 2nd half. The momentum of the two players at the point that they compete for the football was not equitable. Diggs was at a specific advantage. I'd expect a DB launching into the air from a full speed sprint to win that ball 4 / 5 against a receiver who has slowed and is trying to come back for the football. I'm sure there would be a scientific formula one could do that demonstrates the advantage the DB had.

Yea for sure, they will use it as fire. It is who they both are. But there is no doubt that they know the chances are slimmer without some of their most talented teammates.

Jackson is a slot corner. He doesn't help us unless Taron goes down. He isn't very good outside. Williams is a good player but he is a 3T in our defense and our loss is really at 1T. Ed is playing great at 3T.

No I am not loathe to criticise Beane. Indeed the Milano and White being the only two difference makers (beyond Josh) drafted by this regime and neither of them were drafted by Beane is a point I have made multiple times on this board. I was making that point before you even showed up around here. The point I am loathe to criticise Beane on is "we lost yesterday because of depth." We didn't. We lost because we were down starters at 5 spots on defense by the 11th play of the game and among those 5 are two first team all pro level guys. By the end of the game (when the Jags scored 14 points) we were down a further starter and two further backups at DE (and we were a key backup down before the game too) and our nickel was hobbled. That isn't a GM problem. That's an injury problem. If you want to criticise Brandon Beane for: 1. Missing on Kaiir Elam; 2. Trusting two old safeties coming off injuries to get back to their best; 3. Not, to this point, having drafted any proven elite level difference makers beyond Josh Allen in six drafts as GM; Then I wouldn't dispute ANY of those points. But they are wider points. They don't go to Sunday specifically which was a perfect storm of injury issues that no team in the NFL against a decent standard of opposition would be able to overcome.

And who is young and productive. The middle of the ven diagram is so miniscule as to barely exist. That is my point. So the likelihood is you won't get back better value than you'd get in comp picks if he ends up being paid by someone else in FA.

Yes but you need ANOTHER team willing to give you a productive young player in return. That is the bit I consider very unlikely.

Because as you admitted yourself NFL teams do not really trade away productive young players. Most of the trades at the deadline are for older guys off bad teams having a fire sale.

Exactly. So if you do it you probably are not getting a productive young player. You are likely getting a past his sell by date guy who is more name than production at this stage.

I'd just finished my hot dog!

I doubt Von is worth anything at this point, but you know what if he was I'd consider it. Maybe I am too down on our chances from here on in this season, but I don't think we are a potential Superbowl winner now. If someone was willing to give me something.... it leaves me with a lot of dead cap to eat next year but it also creates me $6.5m in space (and he is likely gone leaving you with some dead money AFTER next year in any event). I let AJE and Greg start the rest of the way and I evaluate them as my combo to go forward with. Again, maybe that is too defeatist a view on where we are for 2023. But right now that is where I am at.

The Cook play that lost yards was ABSOLUTELY a play that needed to be audibled. I was screaming at the top of my lungs before we snapped that ball. It was fudging obvious. I said it straight away in the shoutbox. Who knows what their audible rules are there but it was obvious the Jags had an overload to that side. A quick pass to the left would have had the potential to go for big yards. EDIT: I still don't agree that the INT is on Diggs having watched that play back. He is desperately trying to slow up and then come back for the ball so there is no way that he can generate the same momentum and spring in his leap to the DB who is still going and full pelt. That should have been a touchdown. It is the only mistake I though Josh made as a passer all day and it isn't one to kill him for.... that is a low percentage throw.... but I am simply not having that as a receiver mistake. The laws of physics made that throw one in the DBs favour and if it had just been laid out in front Diggs had 4 yards on the defender and was walking into the endzone.

Fine if you are getting one. Like who?

They won't be thrilled. They know their chance of winning the Superbowl this year just took a major hit. But equally they get it. It is the NFL. It is brutal. Injuries can rip seasons apart. They will all say "next man up" but they know you can't just next man up Matt Milano.

Unless you are getting a stud back or a 1st or 2nd round pick (you won't) why would you? He keeps playing like this he will fetch a decent comp pick if he leaves in FA.

They are not stupid. Every single person who is close to this team knows that the three guys we have lost for the year within the last two weeks are big players for this team and includes two guys who have been first team all pros. Our SB chances are, without doubt, diminished. They know that. Everyone does.

Yea. Think they definitely got the scheduling wrong. I suspect the sports science team will be getting some very stern questions from the coaches this week.

Sure. Williams isn't a lost cause because he struggled on Sunday. But you are losing the BEST cover linebacker in football right now. You can have the best general manager on the planet and you still won't have a day 1, direct replacement for a player like that. That is my point in this. Championship teams have a handful of elite players. When they don't they are not championship teams even if they still have a decent roster overall. The Bills have 5 guys on this roster that have been first team all pro in their careers. Four of them with the Bills (Von with Denver). Of those five we have just lost two in two weeks to season ending injuries.

Zimmer never won fewer than 7 games and the first time he went back to back non-playoff seasons they fired him. I agree O'Connell will probably be fine... but three of their next 4 are Bears, Packers, Falcons. If 1-4 became 2-7.... I think he might be in trouble.

Whooosh.

No. I think you need 4 or 5 elite players to win a Superbowl. I think that matters more than where you O or D ranks statistically. Traditionally that is what Superbowl winners have had. Almost always one of those is your QB. The positions of the rest don't matter as much but you need them. I worry we just lost one of ours and potentially a second of them (if the last game and 3/4s of Tre was really him back to his best). I don't know if Von can get back to elite level this season off an ACL. Which leaves us with two healthy elite players - Allen and Diggs. History tells you to win a Superbowl you need more than 2. Maybe Ed Oliver or Greg Rousseau keep up their fantastic starts and by the playoffs we are talking about them in that category. Maybe Von gets back there. Not sure I see anyone else on the roster who we might talk about in that way by January. Feels like we are now light on elite players compared to the norm for Superbowl winners.

They had an elite guard and an elite center too. Plus Mahomes, Kelce and Jones. That is 5 elite guys. We have Allen and Diggs. Maybe Greg, Ed, Von can get to that level. You generally need 4 to 5 genuine elite guys. One us normally (but doesn't have to be) your QB. The positions of the othets matters less.

Jesus H Christ. Leodis McKelvin is hanging by the phone.

If Jones has injured his pec badly enough to need surgery that is 5-6 months recovery. That is the season. The Bills long played it last year before admitting the situation on Von. I am pretty certain we are not seeing either DJ or MM again this season.

I see the point. But I see elite players as more important than overall rankings. If the O got hot and played at its best would we have a chance? Sure. But man those 3 season long losses really hurt.