GunnerBill

Larry Fitz ran 4.47 at his pro day. He didn't run at the combine.

The problem with simply crunching the numbers under each of the coaches is that I think in terms of play as a Quarterback 2023 was Josh's worst season since he broke out in 2020. Now I don't put all of that on Josh but I do out a fair amount of it on Josh. Josh has to play better and certainly more consistently. We gave him the best oline he has had and he still made too many bad decisions at times. I don't think the talent around him helped. The coaching change can't have been easy. But I think we need Josh to be better first and foremost. Brady hopefully can help that. But I will tell you when I watched the all22 of his offense vs Dorsey's I am in no doubt who I'd rather have as OC. I think it is what the personnel they have built is best suited to. So maybe it is by design. But if so that's an odd build choice IMO.

I only think that was true under Dorsey. Dorsey's O was very vanilla. Very simple. Put a very high tariff on execution. Daboll's offense was creative and we saw way more creativity when Brady took over. I'm not telling you it is Shanahan or Reid, but it is plenty creative enough. And that was just Brady adding wrinkles to Dorsey's offense. I'll be interested to see what we come out with when he has had an offseason to design it.

It's both. I have no problem investing in the Dline but when it is your highest investment unit both in FA and the draft and yet at no point in your entire reign has it been the strength of the team (we have had pretty good dlines most years but never dominant ones) then both the scale of your investment and how you made it should be questioned. I think that is legitimate. And especially when it has come at the expense of OL and WR at times. Yea you are gonna pick on the one guy out of all those dline investment who has actually been worth the squeeze.

I think most will to be honest. If I had to predict now I'd have Clayton on the PS and I think Grable is right on the bubble. The other 8 are making it. The reason they are making it is the Bills drafted where they had needs this draft. More than any other draft of the Beane era this was a draft entirely for need.

In fairness if you are going to build a bombs away offense you need Josh's deep ball to improve massively on where it was for most of 2023. I do agree though, we are an offense at the moment that is kind of forced to play small ball by our personnel.

They have spent too much on their Dline. That is what it comes down to. In terms of dollars and draft capital. Beane has made 21 picks on the first two days of the draft in his reign. The breakdown is: QB - 1 RB - 3 TE - 2 WR - 1 OL - 3 DL - 6 LB - 3 DB - 2 There are only two numbers that stand out as egregious there to me - it is 1 receiver and 6 DL. Everything else in terms of resource allocation feels within the normal bounds of expectation for someone trying to build and maintain a strong roster over 7 seasons (probably 1 RB too many as well, but again not egregious). And then you add to it: Star, Jefferson, Butler, Addison, Trent Murphy, Daquan, Settle, Jordan Phillips, Ford, Austin Johnson..... and that is only the higher profile guys. Which other position has had so many reasonable established FA vets thrown at it in his time as GM? And people will say "ah that's McDermott's fault it is the rotation.... and I buy that to a point but I crunched the numbers after last season, will dig them out again, and other than KC (where 3 guys played 70%) the top 7 or 8 teams in the league were all broadly in line with the Bills on Dline rotations. The difference is they were almost all using one or two really low investment guys as part of it. We consistently have high picks and high dollars invested up there. And you don't need to take the tea leaves in any event. Just listen to Beane speak. He has said countless times he "makes no apologies" for investing there. It is just how he believes in building.

The Saturday night game in Denver on route to our first division title. Just absolutely smoked them. It was a "you do not deserve to be on this field with us" performance that I in my fandom had never seen from the Bills before.

McClaurin is the other guy who was older when drafted that stands out. I take the point on the age thing. I just think it is correlation not causation. And he was a 3rd round pick.... even way back then. The poster's point was even if Coleman had gone back to FSU and put up 1200 yards and 9 touchdowns running a 4.6 in the 40 he wouldn't have been a top 10 pick. He is right on that. Doesn't mean you can't be a good player. But 4.6 WRs are not getting drafted in the top 10.

To me you know you have a true number 1 when he is the guy that the other team is focussed on trying to take away. I always go back to the Vikings actually when Diggs and Thielen were there together and Thielen invariably had more production and long before he was a Bill I had arguments on this forum that Stefon Diggs was the #1 there (around the time they both got paid) because when you watched the games he was the guy teams were gameplanning to take away. They were happy to let Cousins have Thielen and move the chains they didn't want him to have Diggs and hurt people. Kelce has definitely been a #1 for KC. Gronk was a #1 for New England. You can win Superbowls without one though. But I think the collection of attributes you do have better be strong. The Flacco Ravens always spring to mind. They had Torrey Smith as a vertical burner and Anquan Bolden as a big contested catch possession receiver (and a good tight end whose name now escapes me). Smith and Bolden were both #2s but they had such complimentary skillsets that the combination was sufficient. That's what the "draft two, big guy and speedster" advocates in the run up to the draft were on about. If they had taken (for example) Coleman AND Frankin (say in the spot they took Carter) they still wouldn't have a #1 but they'd have two guys with complimentary skillsets. My issue with where we are is less that we don't have a #1. It is that second only to the Chargers we have the least proven WR corps in the entire league.

To this day in terms of draft value points spent on wide receiver in the first 3 rounds of the NFL Draft Sean McDermott (one year running the draft) has spent more than Brandon Beane (seven years running the draft). We have a Carolina drafter doing Carolina drafting. It's all about Beane.

I wasn't making the argument that it is the same to be clear. But I do think in the interests of balance worth pointing out. I think the key for them was they had their best defense of the Reid era last year. We probably have a defense that is worse than before as well. And I definitely have not argued the Bills receiving corps is acceptable. I have been arguing for the last two years it wasn't when we had Diggs and Gabe. It definitely isn't now when it is Curtis Samuel and a rookie.

I think they are the only one with less proven production at the NFL level than the Bills. Chargers 32. Bills 31. New England 30. What I will say is the Chiefs would have been 32 on this list for me last year and we saw how that worked out. I know they have an all timer at tight end but their most proven NFL receiver going into last year was MVS.

I don't think his vision has been coherent.

He is GREAT covering slots and tight end near the line. It is his the thing that stands out on his tape IMO. I do think that is slightly different to the question about him as a centre fielder. He has the physical attributes to do it. His tape isn't as good there though for me. That isn't me saying he sucks at it or anything to be clear. But personally I think as a rookie he is better served in the Poyer role than the Hyde one.

Oh he is only here because McD hand picked him. No doubt. But Beane running the draft would always look like this IMO. Unless he had a Head Coach who had personnel control over him. Indeed in terms of draft value via the JJ chart McDermott spent more day 1 and 2 capital in his 1 draft in charge than Beane has in his 7.

I do agree thar we haven't prioritised offensive assets - wide receiver in particular even nearly enough. But I am 100% confident that would have been the case wherever Brandon Beane was the GM and whoever his Head Coach was. So long as Beane has personnel control he will prioritise defensive line, linebackers and running backs. It is Carolina 101.

I was a firm no when you asked before. I'm still a no. But a softer one. I just am not a big Diontae Johnson guy and never have been. Sloppy route runner with bad hands and a questionable attitude.

Nope. LAC is the worst "proven" group. But they have 3 new wildcards to throw at it. Ours is probably second least proven and we added one dart but a second tier one. New England is probably slightly more proven (never been a big Juju guy but do like Kendrick Bourne and that duo more proven than Samuel and Shakir) they have two low second high third tier new darts in Polk and Baker. It is much of a muchness.

For what our need is I agree. Chark is the best fit. I actually wanted him last year. I have us New England and LAC as the worst 3. I don't think ours is worse than theirs necessarily but it isn't better.

I think McConkey catches. I went Worthy yards thinking big plays but Legette and Coleman make some sense to me there as well. TDs I think Coleman.

Agree unless they hired like a Shanahan or a McVay or someone who would have the authority to have final personnel say and use Beane as a glorified chief scout (although if you are doing that you'd be better getting someone else IMO).

I mean its still one receiver in 7 years first two days.

Beane gambles on a gambler. Interesting.

If you run sub 4.45 Beane tells you to ***** off to Miami. Gotta have another linebacker FC. A team that only plays 2 should be at least 6 deep at that spot at all times. He learned that from Gettleman.