GunnerBill

That should be a simple 4 or 5 yards fir Shakir. Josh just missed him.

Just checking in. A bit late to the party today. Quite drunk.

Yea but by the time you take add in the starters on rookie deals..... And the fact is he IS the Texans backup.

No. It wasn't me making that point. Was the OP.

Of course. But isn't the initial point Beane should get some sort of bonus for drafting Singletary and Moss based on their performances this year? I'd submit that is because they are both now in role they are best suited to which is a role not worthy of a day 2 pick. I think Moss is close to bust status as a Bills draft pick. They gave up on him early year 3. Singletary isn't that he was just an average pick and an average player.

Yea mainly Gabe. But Shakir to a lesser extent and even some Sherfield. They would get to the line. Josh looked at the defense, then stepped back and they motion one of the receivers in tight or into the backfield and they almost always followed that with a run. It was something I noticed a lot with Dorsey. @HoofHearted says they did occasionally pass out of it and I am sure he is right I haven't broken it down or anything but in my perception watching games when they did that it ordinarily meant run. My assumption was always that it meant they weren't changing the play but they need to tweak the formation to make the play they had called work, so they'd motion a receiver tighter before they snapped it.

No. My position was when someone other than the team who drafted them took a view on the value of both Singletary and Moss they concluded they are backups. Personally I was surprised Singletary didn't find a starting job somewhere. It was always my contention he was a bottom end level starter and ideally suited to a change of pace role, but I expected him to find one of the 32 starting jobs. He didn't. His best offer was backup in Houston.

Yea, I remember noticing this with Dorsey a lot too. Almost to the point where it was such a tendency, receiver motions into the backfield or slot as a blocker, you kinda wanted to see them develop some pass plays off of it. Because teams gameplanning for the Bills had to have that as one of their run keys.

I am not interested in who you think "should be" I am talking about who is.

He was a starter in Buffalo. The league then paid him and valued him as a backup. You can think the Texans were wrong on that if you like, but that is just you liking him. The facts remain the facts. He was signed and valued as a backup.

The fact that he is currently the Texans backup. Despite all those starts for the Bills when he hit the FA market he was signed as a backup and paid as a backup. Of course Beane thought he was more than that - he drafted him. But Beane spent two 3rd round picks on players who when the rest of the league got a chance to value they valued as backups. That isn't an opinion. That is the reality.

But both are ultimately back ups. And two day 2 picks on running backs who are ultimately back ups is not a good value investment.

Ha. I don't predict. I just have a feeling the Bills will play well tomorrow.

I have a funny feeling about tomorrow. Dunno just have a sneaky feeling the Bills find a way.

I loved Okudah too. I am still shocked he busted.

Yes exactly, he was. But it has poisoned his long term thinking on the position. And it is a position that DOES matter in the modern game. If you don't have 1 very good reliable corner you are the Lions. A good team that can lose to literally anybody at any moment.

Yea I love Bill but he is just wrong on corner.

Had the feeling of them loving Witherspoon so much that they had boxed themselves into "him or not a corner" but the reality is - and I said this pre-draft - there were three very good legit first round corner talents in the class and Gonzalez (pre-injury) and Joey Porter Jnr have proved me right so far. Any of those 3 would have been immediate upgrades at a premium position. Instead of a running back who is still being used primarily as their change of pace back. It isn't a knock on Gibbs. I think he can be a good player. But it is bad draft strategy. And then to compound that by spending a 2nd top 20 pick on an off the ball linebacker who isn't a coverage match up piece? Yea. Detroit had a bad day 1 even if they recovered a tad with a good day 2.

This is the strangest thread bump ever.

I just don't think he is mentally in a great space. I don't think it is football related. I don't know what it is. But his behaviour has been odd all season. And not compared to anyone else compared to him in previous years.

But just to be clear "held accountable" does not necessarily equal "fired".

Yea Gabe is gone. Whatever they do at WR2 needs to be an upgrade. Either via trade or draft.

Personally I absolutely believe Josh Allen can get better. Because I think he can be more consistent. I still feel like 2020 was his most consistent season as in game to game. I actually think it some ways he is a BETTER Quarterback now than he was in 2020, but he hasn't played as consistently. I think the majority of that is in Josh's head. His offensive line has been a legit excuse in 2021 and 2022 but while nobody is confusing the Bills 2023 Oline for the Hogs it has been an average, serviceable NFL line. I still think there is some legitimacy to the weapons point, particularly at receiver, but I think there is a tendency to overstate it. Diggs, Kincaid, Shakir and Davis isn't bottom of the barrel and James Cook has been really good as a dual purpose back. He is 4th in the league in rushing and of the 3 above him only the obvious - CMC has outperformed him as a receiver. It just comes down to Josh playing consistently. If he goes on a tear the rest of this season there is no game the Bills can't win. But I just don't know how much I trust his mental state to be able to do that. I hope the coordinator change sparks something either because Dorsey was a big part of the problem or even if he wasn't because it triggers a kind of mental reset in Josh.

He has to put up star level production. He has been very good as a rookie. He is tracking towards the upper end of my projection for him in his first year. But to call him a star at this stage would be premature. Disagree with that. W-L is a factor as are Pro Bowlers and especially All Pros selected.

I don't agree with the bolded. There is just too much randomness and luck. You can make bad decisions and get lucky. You can make all the right decisions and still come up short. The best team does not always win the Superbowl. And I can think of countless years where that is true. As for positional value at the draft I think you can take a pretty clear view on that. There is enough data over the years to support it.