GunnerBill

Embarcing variance? As in accepting the chuck and duck, boom or bust nature of his offense? That isn't modern. The Oilers were doing that in the 80s. Just asking Josh to go deep all the time was putting even more of the offense on his shoulders. And he ran him more in his one full season than anyone else. Still not seeing it.

Josh had a career high in carries in Ken Dorsey's only full season.

There was nothing modern about Dorsey's offense. It passed a lot (though at about the same rate as before he took the reigns) but other than that what do you think made it modern? It had predictable route combinations and formations, conventional play action and almost a total absence of pre-snap shifts and motion. Not disputing the second half of your point - Brady went ball control when he took over and if that persists into this season it is a concern - but I don't see the modernity in Ken Dorsey at all. It was a mid 00s passing attack just with more volume.

Daboll was too fond of his gadget plays, I don't dispute that. But his offense actually tried to win with scheme especially in the way they attacked the middle of the field with crossers and man beaters and outside with his high-low combination routes. Dorsey just tried to win by talent running a handful of shot plays over and over and as soon as he didn't have Stef Diggs playing at an all pro type level it fell apart. His scheming was beyond simple and put a really high tariff on execution. You want to argue that had the Bills done a better job of providing outside receiving talent it would have been more productive for longer? No dispute. But it was so predictable. They were bottom 5 in the NFL running motion, they were conversely near the top of the league in 2 by 2 sets from which they ran mirror concepts at a really high rate and defenses just didn't have a ton to prepare for. It was way too predictable and when defenses really started to key into what he was doing and the offense spluttered and at times stalled out he had no answers.

Actually only surprise for me there is Hollins over Coleman which is surely a rookie earn it thing.

Oh I am not lamenting his loss. I was mentally prepared for his departure a year before it happened. But he had 2 terrible games to start last season and it set a narrative that didn't hold. After that he played pretty well.

He wasn't a top 60 player but I remain after the first 3 weeks Poyer had a decent year. He wasn't all pro Po anymore but he was still a perfectly decent NFL starting safety. Hyde looked closer to the end IMO which is why him being unsigned is not a surprise to me. I think he knows and will only play if the Bills need him in an emergency.

On the first point it isn't $2.2m that could be spent on another player late in the season. His contract is $2.25m fully guaranteed broken down into £1.35m cap hit this year and $900k dead money in void years. If he is on the roster this season he costs $1.35m on this year's cap and $900k on future cap. If he is not on the roster he counts $1.35m on this year's cap and $900k on next year's cap. They don't gain more money to spend on someone else by keeping MVS on the roster, except for the fact that if they cut him then they owe the salary of player who makes it instead of him and that money would come off their ability to make moves later in the year. The candidates for that are Claypool ($1.085m), KJ Hamler ($1.055m), Tyrell Shavers ($799k) and Zach Davidson ($799k). So those are the actual amounts that cutting MVS "costs" them. The money on MVS's contract is a sunk cost. They are on the hook for that whatever they do. Is $1m the difference between signing even a useful depth guy late in the year or not? Unlikely. Agree on Claypool and Hamler though. They have not shown anything to make me think they are preferable options and Claypool has been nicked up which hasn't helped his cause.

Daboll was a better OC than Dorsey. I actually said when he was in the running for jobs I never loved him as a HC hire. Again - didn't think he had the temperament for it.

I'm not persuaded Watson is going to bounce back at this stage but I think he is still likely better than Wilson. Wilson has been absolute trash the past two years.

Think they have said they are out....

Controversial view, I'd still trade Deebo to pay Aiyuk if it was me. But Deebo is such a specific Shanahan offense piece I can see why they aren't doing that.

Presumably it is a "minimum" of 4 games?

Agree on the New England loss. That was a disaster class from McDermott. The worst defensive gameplan of this entire regime IMO. I thought he should have handed over playcalling at that point because he wasn't doing either job particularly well. He managed to find his groove later in the year and the defense played really well down the stretch until the injuries ripped the entire second level outta the side. That said, it doesn't change my view at all on Dorsey. He was a good time coach. When things were going well they kept on rolling. Once they hit a road bump he looked over his head and the offense looked miserable. It wasn't just inconsistent or failing to finish off drives... there were entire halves where they could barely move the ball. I have met plenty of those types of coaches in my life. The guys who are great in the good times but struggle to lead in adversity and I think Ken Dorsey exhibited some of those traits.

Yea it is a numbers game. Saturday will be instructive as to where the edge guys are in the competition based on who plays and in what rotation but from the reports I have seen of camp Toohill has struggled for time with the 1s.

They carried 4 a few times, definitely. They also had one year they just carried Gronk and Hernandez and ran the most 12 in the league (think it was the 2nd Superbowl loss to the Giants year from memory). So there is that.

I think it is better for Josh. I don't think he is great in bitty scenarios. He always seems better when he has his feel for the game.

I think max two of those 6 is getting cut. Possibly one of the tight ends and Hardy only if he fails to win the return job. There is a route to all 6 making it IMO.

I know you are a Dorsey fan because he was a 'cane but I don't think he had the temprament for the job. Being a coach you have to learn to lead through failure, because it comes to us all. And as I said at the time when he lost his ***** in Miami that reeks of a lack of control. I imagine when thing started to go south for the offense he was zero fun to be around. It is in moments of failure (and every coach in every sport has them) that your leadership really gets tested. The players on offense looked miserable as hell in that period. If Dorsey struggled to control his emotions with them that probably played a part in them looking like they had the weight of the world on their shoulders.

Wow. Hadn't heard that. It is a big change. Hopefully ends the "hang about in the car park" cuts we used to get each year with a vet not subject to waivers.

I think Stef going is part of that but I think Dorsey was too. I was never convinced post his temper tantrum at Miami and then the offense all looked miserable by the time he was fired. I'm not sure he had the energy and the vibe they wanted in that room.

If that is true that is a very significant change. That you can IR before cuts and it doesn't mean they are done for the year.

I think he does need some time but I'd rather give him one decent crack to get into rhythm. I am not sure 6 to 10 plays in week 1 of pre season and then 10 to 15 week 2 is the best method for ramping a guy like Josh up. I'd rather he play one full half, and preferrably after the rest of the offensive starters have had a run out week 1 to get themselves going a bit.

Meh. I don't think you can run scared of pre-season opponents.

I'd rather just play him into (and possibly the whole of) the second quarter next week. Personally I don't think Josh at the Jets last year was about rust so much as it was about Josh getting in Josh's head.