GunnerBill

What will be interesting to see is who the league thinks our number 1 guy is. The Cardinals clearly thought it was Kincaid and played to take him out of the game. That is always my litmus test for who is a real #1 and who isn't. It was the Diggs - Thielen point in Minnesota. A lot of the media were happy to call Thielen the #1 but when you watched the games the league was telling you who it thought the #1 was there by the way Diggs almost always attracted extra coverage attention. Will that continue on Kincaid? My guess is it will until someone else shows that they are the guy to worry about. The problem with your #1 that teams are planning to take away being a tight end rather than a receiver is that it is easier to get multiple guys around your tight end in the middle of the field without needing to disrupt the integrity of your defensive scheme too much. It's why we really have to hope Coleman as he develops or Samuel as he gets more healthy can demonstrate they are that guy. The receivers played well Sunday and the spreading seemed to work. Question is what happens when they play less well?

You're just wrong.

I have watched the all22 back now. I don't think he was very impressive. He was fine (maybe fine is an upgrade from "meh" but I don't particularly intend it to be). He is definitely moving better than last year - I said that right at the start. But did he really impact the game? No I don't think he did. Others can think differently. I have no issue with that. But I have watched the game back. It isn't an agenda it is my actual conclusion. I think his performance is being exagerrated some. To me clear case of the eye test not supporting some of the data. I don't mind people thinking I am wrong. I do mind people presuming that is because I have an agenda. I don't.

Except I have a history here of admitting when I'm wrong. I have eaten some crow today on a Bills player performance on Sunday in Mack Hollins. The problem here is I simply don't think I am.

I am saying you are wrong. Disagree with me all you want. You are entitled to. It won't change the reality. But I have explained my perspective and all you do is say "ah you just don't like Von". Nothing is further from the truth. I disagree. I see that same play as you and I see it very differently. You want everyone to agree with you. I don't. Not because I have agenda. But because I really believe you are wrong.

Oh look you can use emojis. Go you. Just give it up. I know you only want to hear opinions that agree with you. And you will run any straw man argument you can to try and make them.

Good for Harry getting an extension. He not sure I'd wanna pay $9.5m AAV for him. But fair play.

Ha. You talking about sensitivity. Seriously? This is comedy gold. I have not backtracked at all. You should work on your skills of interpretation. They suck.

Throw your pom poms in the bin. They are useless. The fact is that is a gimme sack. 3 players won their assignment, including Von (never disputed) and then he was the one who benefitted from the QB tripping over and touched him down. The rest is just pom pom waving and to try and take a victory lap on the back of it is royally ***** ridiculous. But you do you.

I think as teams got tape on him they have exploited his weaknesses more as its gone on.

There was definitely one where he slipped and whiffed as a result. He slid past the play.

Oh well. If the Cover 1 team said so... I mean they have a history of always being right.... oh hang on, no they don't.

I think the rope is still pretty long for now. But if he keeps playing like that it is possible.

Yea I wasn't a massive fan either, particularly when people were talking about him as a first round pick. I thought he went about where he should at the end of the 2nd and while I was okay with him there I was surprised the Bills liked him because generally I think their preference has been linemen who are athletic and can move.

One major disagreement - I think it actually was pretty close to a disaster for O'Cyrus. 3 pressures, 3 penalties, 2 bad missed assignments on run plays. He was really rough. He looks out of condition to me. Agree though it was otherwise a very strong day for the line. And one major agreement - for all the crap I have given him pre-season I thought Mack Hollins had a really good game. In all facets. He ran the route on the touchdown perfectly - he made it look simple but you gotta get the depth of your break just right there to make sure both that a) you are making it to the endzone and b) that you have the right leverage on the DB to box him out. But not only that he found soft spots in zones well even when not targetted and played an important role as a blocker.

I didn't give him credit over Von. Nor did I say Von didn't do a decent job on that play. I said it was a freebie sack. Any of them could have been the first to Murray to tag him when on the ground. And it isn't proof of anything. What is your position? That those guys didn't win their assignments? Or that those guys winning their assignments had no part in reducing Murray's escape routes and that it was all Von Miller? Miller played a part in the pressure. Three Bills defenders closed in. Murray tripped over trying to fashion a way out. Von got a freebie sack.

Yep. I said it right away in this thread. Arizona played to take Kincaid away. He was the Bill they were not willing to let beat them. Agree. I think it is the one genuine legit criticism beyond the playcalling on that last series when we don't know how much Josh's health played in. They were too predictable with 1st down runs. It worked Sunday. Overall it needs to balance out for the offense to sustain success. Otherwise he did a really nice job on Sunday Brady. It's even better on second look. There are definitely more open receivers than at times last season.

Last year, for sure. I think before that the Bills have had something of an identity. Lots of shotgun passing, only running to keep the D honest, lots of option routes, lots of outbreaking plays and Josh's legs in the endzone. I think last year was a bit of a muddle and so far this year they seem to be going slightly away from what they have been.

I think what happened a bit is after his strong start last year teams got film on him and identified he has a bit of a weakness to a quick first step pass rusher attacking his inside shoulder. And teams are going after it. To @Coach Tuesday's point above though I do wonder about his conditioning. I know he is a bigger guy but he looks heavy and he isn't the most fleet of foot to start with.

Zero pressures given up by our tackles. 1 by Edwards (who was really good in the run game too) 2 by McGovern and 3 from Torrence (who also had 3 penalties - he was even worse on a 2nd look).

Yea he is here 2025 and 2026. 2027 is the first realistic exit point. That's cost OTC has already added on the prorated option bonus. But that technically doesn't trigger until March 2025, so Spotrac shows it but isn't counting it.

Yea the option bonus doesn't formally prorate until March next year. But it will. It's a given. So yes, you need to add $3.2m dead cap to 2028 and $6.4m dead cap to 2027. EDIT: sorry $6.4m in 2028 and $9.6m in 2027.... didn't spot that $3.2m also goes into a voided year in 2029.

Suggests years 4 and 5 are pretty small fry in terms of guarantee. It's a 4 year extension, money spread over 5 years, and potentially cheap exit after 3.

Agree. I think the Bills got the rough end of the deal first half, the personal foul and the repeated Cardinals false starts that were not flagged. I think we got some makeup calls later.... the RTP on Josh was soft as hell and Ingram could certainly have been called for PI at the end. I thought the officials just sucked generally.

I agree with this, and if he gets 9 more sacks this year I'll be happy to eat crow. I just don't think there was anything there yesterday to support a victory lap. Was there some encouragement compared to last year? Sure. Was this a "Von is back" performance? Not even close and that 'sack' is definitely not evidence of that.