GunnerBill

Simms has it right. First half Josh was just flat out bad. He wasn't as bad second half. He was okay second half, nowhere near his brilliant best, but okay.

Two reasons: 1. If you get it wrong as a defense there is generally someone wide open and unlike with a blitz where you might rush the throw you are vulnerable. Gotta have confidence in your coaching and your execution to pull it off. 2. Not every oline is as baffled as the Bills were in Baltimore. And even if you execute if the offense can pick it up you have an unathletic DL stuck in coverage.

The Ravens didn't blitz a ton actually. They pressured a ton. But a lot of those were 4 man pressures. What they were doing well was disgusing who was coming so they'd rush a DB and drop a DE for example. And the Bills were confused and unable to identify and communicate.

I was including him in the trade up options, but fair he was generally seen a half tier below the top 3. @Kirby Jackson and I talked about that in another thread yesterday. I was 50/50 on the idea of give up a 2nd rounder to go late teens for BTJ pre-draft because he is a bit one trick pony. But if you'd given me a choice between that or two small trade downs and Coleman Id definitely have gone up for Thomas. His one trick is the thing this offense is sorely lacking. A genuine vertical separator outside.

Definitely Rapp. He is the best of a bad bunch on the evidence so far. I'd be tempted to stick with Bishop next to him but think they both want to play more as a strong safety.

We either needed to go UP for one of the sure things or buy two lottery tickets from the 2nd/3rd tier guys.

Yea Mills was a serviceable run blocker but stiff as anything in the pass game. Groy was benched just after. Miller and Duccase were bad.

I disagree. You can be the real deal and not overcome a team that talentless. Josh didn't really overcome it either. He survived it. Which allowed him to overcome later.

They were. Baltimore did too. The book is out now. The Bills have to prove they can beat you there or else teams will keep doing it.

I'm not, I just think the Patriots priority HAS to be Maye. Losing some of your vets because you are playing Brissett doesn't matter. Most of those guys have no role to play in your hopeful climb back to relevance. They have to get Maye in at the right point when he has a chance to get is feet wet, there is no pressure because the season is sunk, and even if it goes badly or is uneven you can't get too beaten up physically or down mentally that you go into 2025 already expecting failure. I don't think they are at that point yet. I'd be waiting another 4 or 5 games personally UNLESS the oline magically improves before then.

Completely. That was what triggered this thread. It should be easier to pass on 1st down. It should especially be that way when you are primarily a run on first down team. And yet through the last two games the Bills are (cumulative) on 1st down passes 6-18 for 15 yards. That is unspeakably bad.

I don't think as bad as that Bills line was it was getting trashed the way the Pats line is so far this year. They did at least have a building block of sorts in Dion although I know he struggled a bit in his second year. Also just because Josh overcame it doesn't mean everyone will.

And it was an old roster even among what was left. That was more my point rather than them being bad per se... it was still McCourty, Gilmore, Edelman, Brady, Chung, White, Collins etc...

Yea the second half of the Brady era they pretty much managed without a reset and that was a phenomenal achievement - partly drive by the fact that guys would take less money to go there for a year or two and chase a ring. But it also led to the last couple of years of Brady that roster being held together with a roll of sticky tape and not much else.

Yea Jacksonville's issue was playing us in a ton of man so that Josh knew what he was getting every snap. They mixed their single high with their two deep pretty well. It was not being willing (or able?) to show us any kind of disguised zone coverages that got them shredded.

Their defense sucks and their oline sucks. They have serious issues aside from QB IMO.

At some point he has to play. I get that. They were hoping that the Oline would bed in a bit the first few weeks and improve. It hasn't. Personally I'd have waited a while longer. My thinking would have been as soon as we say any improvement from the line OR the last 6 games regardless. I think this is a horrible situation to throw him into.

He came from Deonte Harty getting hurt, hard as that is to believe. Harty (then known as Harris) was their run vertical speed guy in 2021. Had 570 yards and 3 touchdowns. Shaheed came in as a rookie in 2022 and was cut at the end of camp and put on the practice squad. Week five Harty hurt his foot, went on IR and the Saints signed Shaheed to the active roster to replace him. The next week Shaheed was active and used in the vertical speed guy role. Had similar numbers in that role in 2022 to Harty the previous year and then has earned a bigger role in the offense ever since. When you are a UDFA you sometimes need luck (or someone else's misfortune) to get your opportunity. And generally you only get one. Shaheed got his at Harty's expense and made it pay. Well done to him.

He couldn't get on the field on a terrible defense. I think he is cooked. No idea what happened. He was excellent his first couple of years.

I felt like if the Bills won either of the last two the playoffs were pretty much a certainty. I think they need at least 4 of the next 5 now to stay in the hunt. 8-2 they'd be in a good spot. 7-3 they'd be okay. Worse than that they are in trouble... although if the Jets implode 9 wins might win the East. Zero chance the Pats or Miami get more than that IMO.

About the same. He has always done it.

Sure. But the point was if you have a 10-15-20 year QB it is inevitable that you have to have these resets, reloads, mini rebuilds. It is just a fact.

Yea that is fair.

And when I repeated it post draft I got as much heat for not like that as for not liking the Josh pick a year later. Seriously it was ridiculous the following Peterman had on here before he played a down. I was, thankfully, very wrong on Josh. But my take on Peterman was exactly as it played out. College QBs with rag arms get tagged as "smart and accurate" almost by default. He was neither smart, nor accurate. And his arm is barely pop warner standard.

Yea that is feasible. It isn't my reading of it. Looks like a slot post to me. I think the ball sails outside on him. The endzone view that is what it looks like too. Looks like it gets away. But you could be right. Regardless of whether it is a bit Josh and more Hollins or more Josh and a bit Hollins the play was there and they missed it.