GunnerBill

I am only trading Oliver if it is part of a deal to get an elite receiver and I don't see how that happens. Otherwise he is one of the few "paid" pieces I am definitely keeping. Basically him, Josh Taron and Dion. You probably have to keep Spencer Brown too now and I don't mind that but as I said at the time I think they went early on the extension.

He was still out of position a few times. Slightly is probably unfair, let's say better but still inconsistent vs Houston. His best game by far is still Jacksonville. Baltimore his worst.

Or "correctly" if you will.

We need far more consistent play out of Dorian Williams before I'd entertain this. Jacksonville was his best game as a Bill but he followed it up with one of his worst vs Baltimore. Then he was slightly better again vs Houston.

I haven't softened anything. My take now was my take at the start. I posted in Sunday freaking night after the game. Josh didn't get much help but he sucked the first half of that game. That was my feeling watching on TV. It was still my feeling when I got to the all22 on Tuesday. It was my feeling long before Chris Simms' breakdown. The play we are discussing here is simply a classic example. Josh isn't the only one who makes a mistake on that play. But he makes a mistake regardless, the right read despite the other exrcution failures was still the throw to Cook. And it is the sort of mistake that keeps the offense off schedule. Which happened a lot on Sunday night - the Bills were terrible on 1st down and I have broken down the first down passing game elsewhere in the board in detail. Again, if people want a mitigation there the point some of us were making pre-season that when you want to run a small ball offense it puts a very high tarrif on efficiency is true. But none of that changes the basic truth of what went on Sunday and part of that truth was first half especially was a poor performance by Josh. It's even worse than that it is absue. Thankfully the UK Government is committed to banning it. Not before time.

There is no dispute that he isn't getting much help. That is really clear. But it doesn't absolve Josh of what is ultimately a mistake.

Understanding why doesn't mean it wasn't Josh's mistake.

In the first half on Sunday, yea, a chunk of it WAS Allen. That isn't to dispute we have all the other stuff going on too and he isn't getting a lot of help. Both can be true at the same time. On the specific play I agree that Coleman doesn't clear the defender out as well as he should the ball should still go to Cook on that play. There is plenty of room to put that ball outside and in a place where only Cook can make a play - even if that is a safer throw and restricts the YAC that is less of a concern because it's first down. And he comes off and then ends up trying a much lower percentage play. It is exactly my point above. I understand why Josh comes off it, people did not execute around him. But he still makes a wrong decision and in that first half he made too many of them. I think Josh played a really good first 4 games. Even at Baltimore where the offense struggled I think for the most part Josh did as much as he could. He did not play well in that first half at Houston. I understand why people want to leap to his defence, but you gotta shut the emotion off and judge how he played. And it was a poor half from him. It happens.

Yes that kept him out of games. I was meaning the worst injury where he played "banged up". It came on the Dorsey offense.

It's $11m.

The San Fran game is my #1. Against a top defense Josh was in total control.

That is fair but the worst season affecting injury he has had was vs the Jets in 2022 in Dorsey's offense. And it is a fact that 2022 despite a game fewer than a couple of other seasons was his highest total rushing attempts. Those are also reality.

I think you are just more sensitive to it. Every forum I visit more than half the topics after a defeat are about the Quarterback or the Coach.

It's a fan forum for an NFL team. Quarterback and Head Coach. That is what gets talked about. It isn't just our forum. It's 99% of them. Just tune out the nonsense and don't let the serious stuff wind you up.

I don't think it did though. His worst season affecting injury came in that offense and he ran more than any other year in that offense. I contend it is just your perception.

It is possible to think all of: - Joe Brady is better than Ken Dorsey; - That the Bills offense was severely lacking talent in the skill positions and could struggle; - Allen is clearly being let down but also sucked in the first half against Houston.

Ha, I think he is wrong when he says "second half was no better". But the plays he was breaking down in the video were first half.

That is why teams are trying to take it away. Roquan Smith openly said as much and Houston followed suit.

That wouldn't surprise me because the last two games Baltimore and Houston have been very deliberate in saying "if you wanna throw out there, go ahead, we'll take our chances, you are not beating us with tight ends and slot guys in the middle of the field."

It was actually to flood the middle of the field and make us beat them to the outside.

Correct. I remember Rodgers started one of his MVP years with a stinker against the Saints in which he was atrocious. There was the famous KC game for Brady after which Belichick was asked if he would be reviewing the Quarterback position in the same presser as "we're on to Cincinnati". Great Quarterbacks have bad games. When they do it is fine to say so. I don't get why some people are so sensitive about it.

They are two separate points. You can criticise a player for playing poorly and still not think they are a problem going forward. You don't have to think someone is a problem for the long term to criticise them. Criticising Josh Allen for Sunday, first half especially, is legitimate. I don't think anyone here is arguing he is a top 5 concern on the team going forward. That would be insane. But he didn't play well on Sunday and probably bears more of the blame for the defeat than in any game since the Jets opener last year.

I'm sorry if you don't think Josh was bad in the first half on Sunday I don't know what to tell you. Did he get a ton of help? No. But Josh Allen played poorly and most of that poorly was on Josh Allen. Especially first half. I'm a little different than Simms on the second half in that I think Josh generally made better decisions and more accurate throws, but the first half there is just no getting around it. He was bad. And I have watched the all22.

Simms has it right. First half Josh was just flat out bad. He wasn't as bad second half. He was okay second half, nowhere near his brilliant best, but okay.

Two reasons: 1. If you get it wrong as a defense there is generally someone wide open and unlike with a blitz where you might rush the throw you are vulnerable. Gotta have confidence in your coaching and your execution to pull it off. 2. Not every oline is as baffled as the Bills were in Baltimore. And even if you execute if the offense can pick it up you have an unathletic DL stuck in coverage.