BarleyNY

Ah. I see the advance noted In this article. I did not see anything with it linked and was going by Spotrac’s info - which doesn’t mention the advance at all. It just shows the consequences of it. So NE gave him the $4.5M advance last season to keep him from holding out. Both sides still knew he wouldn’t play for another $7M this season, but NE got a little additional leverage by doing it that way rather than voiding this year. A side note on something that is often misunderstood: Advancing money from a future season as in this case (almost) never gives a team any cap advantage. That’s because carryover eliminates any advantage of using additional space in a current year versus rolling it over. The team just loses flexibility in the short term. The other issue with it is that moving cap hits to future seasons provides an accounting discount since the cap almost always increases. Even negative consequences from a single season (like this one) with a decreased cap can be circumvented. The cap would have to decrease for multiple seasons in a row to make it advantageous to move future cap hits to a current season.

Totally agree on Phins disarray. This is a considerably different situation than Gilmore’s too. Howard is a top CB, but he’s being paid like one and just got a big 5 year contract extension that started a year ago. It really doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

That’s not at all correct. Gilmore has previously restructured by converting salary to signing bonuses, but he never moved salary to a different year. In fact moving his 2021 salary to previous seasons would have been counterproductive for NE. All that happened was that NE moved some of his cap hits to future years. $7M for him is ludicrously under market. NE has known for years that he would not play for that and that they’d have to give him a new contract or trade to a team that would. I’ve got no problem with him holding out - or with a team cutting a player underperforming their contract.

Two in addition to the Steelers twice - Indy and Tennessee.

My bad, then the buck stops with him.

I’m sure the coaches had input but doesn’t Beane have final say over the roster?

I want to chime in on the scheme argument. I used to think that it was a valid reason to excuse Beane, but got set straight here by a long time member (whose name escapes me at the moment). He made the very valid point that every NFL team utilizes both power/gap and I/O zone schemes. Also Teller has done just as well when running plays in both as he is as strong as he is agile. Here is a breakdown of him playing against one of the best DTs in the league - Matthew Ioannidis:

I agree that both sides of the coin are important to look at. Some people here really get worked up over any perceived criticism even when presented in a fuller context. The Bills have been on the wrong side of stuff like this at times - and that can be frustrating - but they’ve been in the right side a lot too.

Good thinking. That would be a goldmine.

The Iggles have the exact same cap numbers whether Ertz is traded or released. That means they’re just dragging this out to maximize value. Theoretically they could wait until cut down day to release him, but they won’t want him in training camp where if he were to get injured they’d be on the hook for his whole $8.5M salary. They won’t risk that, so the endgame will likely be just prior to the start of TC - which starts on 6/27.

Yup. For me it’s probably Ground Hog Day, What About Bob?, Princess Bride and Finding Nemo. Honorable mentions to Stardust, Office Space, Tropic Thunder and pretty much any Tarantino movie. The first five on the list are all movies my kids and I watch when we are sick. I haven’t watched Finding Nemo in years but it was the only thing that would soothe my son when he was young and got sick. He’s graduating high school this month and though I haven’t seen it in 10-15 years I still quote it regularly.

My favorite two Oscars ever awarded are to Marisa Tomei for My Cousin Vinny and Kevin Klein for A Fish Called Wanda.

It really is such a slow time of year for football news

Yeah, good catch. The egregiously bad Clay contract would be bigger any way you look at it.

Their leverage is that they can wait until cut down day to release Ertz for cap purposes. The only problem with that is that don’t want him in the building where they’d be on the hook for his salary if he got injured. So the likely endpoint for this is just prior to the start of training camps on July 27th.

Your kidney? Well this is awkward.

RAS methodology separates DTs and Edge players so it looks like someone combined them to look at Epenesa. His scores obviously looked better in that light, but he was bigger when he came out and it might’ve made sense if he was looked at as a DT/DE hybrid. In any event he’s reshaped his body and those numbers are probably not all that useful anymore.

Saying that EJ should’ve been a 3rd or 4th round pick is a very different thing than saying that at the time he was drafted he thought EJ should’ve been a 3rd or 4th round pick. It looks like Whaley chose his words very carefully as saying the former is truthful and leads people to imply the latter, which would not have been.

Sad that it happened. Glad that it’s been corrected, finally.

I was only trying to explain the situation, not give an opinion of whether we should acquire Ertz. I am not a big fan of our TE corps so I’d love to get Ertz. As for what he’s worth in the FA market, I already said that I didn’t have a great idea because it’s June and there are less teams in need of a TE and less cap space in the league. That muddies the waters. Is he worth $8.5M? Probably, but if Beane can flip a day 3 pick to lessen his salary and cap hit, then all the better. Or if he hits the FA market and we get him for 2 or 3 seasons instead of 1, that’s better too. Or maybe he take a little more money to play for a team that’s not a contender and we miss out on him. But did we want him if that’s where his head was?

Here is my quick breakdown using Spotrac: The Iggles have the exact same cap hits whether Ertz is traded or released at this point. $4.22M cap hit in 2021, $3.55M cap hit in 2022. They would save $8.5M in space and salary this season. Any salary they would take on in a trade would add to his cap hit this season. The Bills would take on his $8.5M salary and cap hit this season, less anything the Iggles agreed to take. So the trade is really a pick for taking on some cap/salary on the Iggles side. On the Bills side they’re just looking to buy down his one year contract with a day 3 pick. Presumably they’d be looking at how much less they’d be paying him versus what it would be on the FA market, not his current $8.5M salary. There are ways to value the cap equivalent of draft picks - this OTC article has examples - but I can definitely see why this would be such a difficult trade to make. Without knowing his market price it’s impossible to figure out what the right pick for salary amounts are fair - or if it’s even possible to make them fair.

I didn’t want to keep this thread going, but I’ll respond for two points: 1) @Rochesterfanis correct that Callahan was not a Browns coach when they traded for him. He did have a very high opinion of him prior to the draft and talked about that when he took the Browns job. My mistake that he wasn’t with the Browns and part of the trade decision. Right after Callahan came on board Teller was slated for starting RG. 2) I never said anyone thought he was going to be an All Pro when the Bills traded him. But no one in the Bills organization saw Teller - a player at a position of need who became an All Pro a season later - as even having solid starter potential? Or that he was more worthy of developing than others on the roster? Others did, and it paid off for them. If Beane had been on the other side of a trade like this, people would be talking about how much smarter he is than other GMs and how he hosed the other team on the trade. This one went the other way and he should take his lumps. That’s all I was saying.

Show me where he pushes the pocket one on one. Things are shifting all over the place with Star’s fans here. I’ve heard that his job is to take on double teams and keep the LBs clean. He doesn’t. I’ve heard that he was doing great in 2019, but then the same people applaud him for losing a bunch of weight. If he was doing so great, then why is changing his body so much a good thing? That makes no sense. Now are you honestly telling me that he’s here to rush the passer? Sorry. I hope he turns it around this season and he gets back to being the player he was in Carolina, but he hasn’t been close yet and I’ll believe it when I see it. Yeah. But then in that Dallas game post with the clips why was there only one clip of him getting doubled on a run?

I wondered that myself. My guess is that the Cowboys were working inside out on pass pro and it just happened to work out that way. Doubling a DT with the extra OL would keep the front of the pocket clean which is helpful for any QB, but particularly important for those on the shorter side like Dak. Still, I have no idea why they’d bother doubling Star. Not even his most fervent supporters pretend he’s here to rush the passer.

Go back and read my comments on him getting doubled by extra pass blockers - and him not pushing the pocket whether double or single teamed as a pass rusher. So now we’re talking TWO running plays he got doubled on? I did miss the first one you linked because he was turned so his number didn’t face the camera. My bad.