Dan

Agreed. You have summed up my feelings of this young season thus far. I'm still not ready to think they'll win 8 games, let alone make the playoffs. I still expect rookie mistakes all around from the coaches on down. But, there IS a different feeling about this team. They seem to care more; they seem to want it more. The overall team attitude truly seems different. For the first time in forever, the players seemed geniunely pissed that they lost to the Pats. They didn't have to review film to see what happened. They didn't need to execute better. They were pissed... they let them win. They took that feeling and rolled it up into a passion on the field last Sunday, hitting hard and playing fast. Yet, amidst the euphoria of a good win, there's the Coach quick to remind us all they have a long way to go and lots of mistakes to fix. I love that. They're pissed they lost and concerned because they eeked out a close win. That's how all good teams think. Maybe they are turning the corner, maybe they still have a couple years. But, a few things seem apparent - EJ is an NFL QB, he's not a retread here to fill a few years. How could he becomes remains to be seen, but you can see the potential oozing out of this guy. We have a legitimate Offensive line! We have a star running back. We have probowlers on the Defensive line. And Kiko has all the looks of a star in the making. The rest of the world may not see it yet. But, the Bills are on their way back to contender status! That's what I'm seeing. Now go kick the snot out of that Jets team and make them know it!!!

Very interesting! I'm a Stripes fan, but was completely unaware of this phenomenon. I completely disagree. I love the Shout song. It is just part of being a Bills fan and few teams have such a tradition engrained into their fanbase. Heck my family sings it at weddings! A Bills score isn't final until I hear that song!

are you talking about the FSU war chant? Cause that's what I seem to hear over the TV. Do they still play the shout song? Because at least on the TV, I used to hear that from time to time... but not these last 2 weeks. maybe just editing by the carrier though.

Wasn't Stevie the first guy going into the locker room in the video? I think he says "McKelvin pressed up in that slant"

That's what I've seen as well and it's why I'm optimistic we may finally have a real QB. He's going to have some bad throws.. bad series.. even bad games. He's even going to throw the game ending interception. All QBs do. It's just part of the game and part of all young QBs becoming NFL starters. But, what I like about him is nothing seems to get him too up or too down. He just keeps hammering away trying to make the next play better. And that's what all the best QBs do. I don't watch a lot of college football. So I had little knowledge of EJ before we drafted him. All I knew is every analyst out there said we should be taking anyone BUT EJ (or so it seemed). Well, at this early point in his career, I'm extremely glad the FO got their man.

I'm not disagreeing that it was a stupid penalty, but actually the play happened late in the 3rd quarter with the game tied at 14. It was the drive right after our score and 2pt conversion. In other words, prime time when the Bills D has historically laid down and let the other team run right back down the field and score to take the lead right back. This team needs an identity. It needs some leaders. It needs to show they want to win. It needs players to step up and impose their will on other teams. That's what they did today. And it started in the 3rd quarter, and for me.. that play was part of it. The defense was flying around the field hitting every one on that series. Agreed, its not the type of play we need to see all the time, but for me, watching this team play soft for so many years... it was nice to see them finally look like they actually wanted to win out there. So, in this instance, I didn't have a problem with it.

I'm gonna disagree with you. At that point in the game, it was still very close. It was anyone's game. We were gaining momentum and the defense was setting the tone. We weren't rolling over today. The Panthers were going to have to fight for every inch. Yes, I agree, it was definitely a penalty and he needs to be aware of where he is in the field. But, for a team needing an identity, I can live with it once or twice this early season. It looked harder to me than just than just a shove. But, I could easily be wrong. Either way, I'm glad we got a safety playing with some fire and passion out there.

I have no problem at all with A. Williams hit and penalty. This team has rolled over and been the nice guy for entirely too long. We need some guys with attitude and hard hits like that can define a defense! Yeah, he doesn't need to do that all the time, but I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a Bills team look that fired up out there. Clean up the crap holding penalties and I can live with a bone crunching hit or two. It's hard to believe Bruce never had a 5 sack game. But, this was a big time game for Mario. He looked like a beast grinding up Cam and stickin him in the freezer! EJ was everything we could ever hope for in a rookie in nly his second career start. He's got alot of room for improvement, but guess what... so does EVERY rookie QB. But without a doubt, he looks like a legitimate franchise QB. I think the best thing to have happened to him is hurting his knee in Preseason. They seem reluctant to call alot of designed QB runs and that's a good thing. We don't need a runnign QB, that can throw a little. The league is set up for passers to succeed. He needs to learn to pass first.. and run later. Kiko is looking like an awesome pick! Lovin this guy.

I'm guessin he was leading the charge a few years ago saying JP Losman was better than Eli.

And after being reactivated, he'll struggle mightily. Until eventually playing the Bills late in the season and then having a career game clinching the division for the Pats. Of course we'll all have the satisfaction still of seeing him suck in the following weeks before being cut by the Pats after the season.

Have you seen any of the player interviews on BB.com? They truly seem pissed off that they lost the game, especially because its the Patriots. I'm fairly confident that no one on the team feels good about losing another close game to that team.

There's a lot of predictable gnashing back and forth about the periphery of the problems - Stevie's drop, the punt on 4th and 1, Spiller's bad day - but the single biggest contributor to the loss was the offense's inability to sustain and sort of drive in the 4th quarter. I have no problem with a hurry up offense, but when you're up by less than a score mid way through the 4th, you run time off the clock. Period. Wanna continue a no huddle? Fine.. but slow it down and take all the time off you can. The offense just wasn't getting it done and gave Brady entirely too many opportunities. For that, and the highly predictable play calling, I put the single biggest reason for this loss on the inexperience of the coaching staff. Up by 1point, just over 5 mins in the game... you have to slow down, run time off the clock, and pull something out of the paybook that's gonna get you a first down. There actually was a lot to be hopeful about after this game. But, hope and dreams are so running thin.

Always defer. It gives you the opportunity for 2 consecutive possessions, i.e. 2 consecutive scores. Plus it allows you to choose when to have the wind or sun at your back which can be a nice edge. You can get just as much momentum from stopping them on the opening drive and then scoring as you can scoring first, then stopping them. Either way you have to score AND stop them from scoring. So that entire argument is a wash either way. Its not about who wins the first drive. It's about who wins the entire game.

I agree. If he's the best safety in the league... tell Parker to find someone willing to give up a 1st round pick plus mid rounder for him and he can go. If he's the best safety in the league, that should be easy enough. Otherwise he can shut up, play and prove that he IS worth all of that and be gone in Feb.

Yeah. That's actually a good point. And perhaps is why they've got so many rookies and new guys on the team now. This season truly does seem like a mystery. That's what led me to start this thread last night. I follow this team each year, all year and for the first time in forever, I feel like this team is a complete mystery. I'm reading the EJ thread that he's practicing and all the optimism but, seriously, it feels like he's played less this preseason than any other starter out there. So, I'm not even sure he's close to being ready. So, I don't know. I'm not saying we'e gonna suck. Conversely, I'm just not sure we're ready to start the season either. This season is a mystery.

As if I wasn't already worried about this season, it occured to me this evening that the Bills have an extremely young roster. Currently, the average is 3.18 years experience. Over half the roster has 3 years or less experience. Add to that, the inexperience at key positions. QB, WR, DB are highlighted by rookies or 2nd year players. Even more puzzling is the seeming lack of playing time by a lot of these guys in the preseason. Maybe its just my perceptions, but EJ hasn't even practiced and Tuel saw no action in the final game. I imagine Marrone was worried about injuries, but it just feels like the last preseason game and a half they didn't even attempt to play the same game that they did in the first 2 games. It seems the FO is going all in with the youth movement, which may or may not work, but its going to be several years before we even know. Am I the only one that wonders if this team is just too young and inexperienced to compete with other teams especially the Pats*?

Is it possible that training camp was a little too fast paced and hard hitting. ..hence the players are getting worn down?

This really doesn't make sense to me. If Tuel is really the opening day starter at this point, don't you get him playing time with our 1st string offense and the Lions 1st string defense both of which typically only play a couple of series at best in this game? Explain the logic behind Leinart starting.

Yep. If you watched what Marrone said... Tuel is considered the week 1 starter. But, if EJ can play then he will play. Now, maybe he changes his tune come Thursday after Big Bad Thad and Lienert have a great game and master the offense after 3 days of practicing, but as of today.... I think we're looking at a QB combo of EJ, Tuel, then whoever looks best out of the others.

I interpret Marrone's statement as this... Kolb, Leinart, Thad... will not be the starters. The job is EJ's with Tuel backing him up. EJ is currently injured and not fully practicing; therefore, until he gets back out there and is full go, Tuel is the starter. The other 3 guys are 3rd stringers (2 will almost certainly be cut).

I would also like to thank you and all the posters that have posted from camp. Without your dedication, we'd all be left with snipettes of misinformation on ESPN and NFL network. You've allowed myself and so many others to enjoy training camp... and get excited for the upcoming season. You're why this board remains the single best place to be if you want good Bills football knowledge and discussion.

1. I believe (if I'm reading the training camp reports correctly) that Tuel is getting reps with the 1st stringers since Kolb tripped up. 2. Why should the coaching staff start anyone just to appease the opinions of a few fans on a message board? Are we so conceited that we think our opinion is THAT important? Tuel was undrafted for a reason. The fact that he's even likely to make a team, let alone be considered for the #2 spot is more than I'm sure he would have even expected. At some point, I think people need to realize we're not coaches and talent scouts for a reason.

With nearly a full quarter still to play, there's only one thing I'm looking for... no injuries!

A quarter and a half of football and the Bills haven't even tried to throw more than 10yds downfield. The coaches gotta be calling short passes and runs for a reason.

My sister didn't want to get the Sunday Ticket this year because the Bills will most likely suck and she (and I) are getting tired of watching crap after crap every week every year. Then I told her about this thread. So, she made the call. In about 35 minutes: - Sunday Ticket free - Max free - $20 off for 12 months - $15 off for 15 months - offerred movie channels, but she turned them down (doesn't like them) - had to agree to a 1year agreement Looks like we'll be watchin more crappy Bills ball this fall! I really hope they don't suck.