Dan

Actually, I said compare this year to last year, not Gailey's last year... but ok. Should we compare points scored when some of those points are scored by the defense? If you just look at the YPG rank, we've dropped 5 places since Gailey's last year (10 since his good year!). Even that number could be skewed if we factor in starting field position and number of possessions. Regardless of what measure or point in time we're looking at, the trend remains the same. And that is a trend of little to no improvement. Yet, isn't Orton supposed to be an upgrade to Fitz or EJ or Thad? Isn't Sammy an upgrade to Stevie? Isn't Boobie and upgrade to whoever else we had? Shouldn't we expect players to get better the longer they play under one scheme, like most of our offensive players have? And to your point about defenses taking away our strengths... I agree. Which is all the more reason our offense should be mixing things up. But, they're not. We're running the same offense that we have all season, regardless of opponent.

And that's the point... we don't have one of the top 5 QBs in the league. So, why draw up a game plan that asks your QB to come out throwing, especially when its against a defense that excels at defending the pass? As stated upthread, there's ways to design an offense to mask your player's weaknesses. All coaches do that, yet our staff are reluctant to do that. Our guards suck, so why do the majority of the run plays follow them? Our QB sucks, so why do we keep throwing deep outs? Our TEs suck, so why do we put all 3 on the field at the same time!? Why do we rarely see screens? Where's the misdirection? Play action? Where's any sort of creative play design that would mask a weakness and take advantage of an aggressive defense that's stacking the box? Yes, Orton makes bad reads and misses throws. That's not the point. The point is the OC is consistently putting him in the position to miss those exact same reads and throws over and over. And its the same with the run game. The bottom line is this... this team is in all likelihood goinf to miss the playoffs again. We have a top 5 ranked defense, and a bottom 10 ranked offense. If you look at all major indices, the defense has improved this year in comparison to last year. On the other hand, a similar comparison shows the offense is either the same or slightly worse, statistically. Supposedly, we upgraded our line and WR positions with draft picks, added more depth at RB, upgraded the QB position, and we have a second year in the system. At what point do you say the offensive coaching isn't getting it done?

I'm just glad I'm not the only one looking around wondering who that guy was!

Good to see you back, Bill! I gotta say, Kyle Williams shoving Manziel down like that was amazingly awesome! Regarding Sammy, anyone think he may be hitting the proverbial "rookie wall"?

Thanks. LOL I think. We got lucky with that crapastic offense, but I'll take it. For at least one more week... we're in the thick of it!

You're very welcome! Can someone please explain how Thigpen is active and expecting to play, while Mike Wiiliams isn't even dressed again? What has The Caveman done to get in the dog house all season?

Week 13: Cleveland Browns at Buffalo Bills Monday, November 30, 2014 at 1:00pm TV Network: CBS (TV Map) Announcers: Greg Gumbel, Trent Green, and Evan Washburn DirecTV: 706 Bills Radio: On the call: John Murphy (play by play), Mark Kelso (analyst), Sal Capaccio (sideline) Flagship: Buffalo – WGR550 (550AM); Toronto - 590 The Fan; Rochester - WCMF (96.5) and WROC (950AM); Syracuse - WKRL (100.9/WKLL 94.9) Sirius/XM: 119 (Internet 803) ================================================================= Game Preview: Mike Pettine received the opportunity to coach the Cleveland Browns after one successful season running the Buffalo Bills' defense. Thanks to an expedited snow thaw, Pettine returns to suburban Buffalo for the first time Sunday as the Browns and Bills each try to improve their playoff chances. While Pettine's Browns rank 20th in total defense this season (367.1 ypg), the Bills under defensive coordinator and former Detroit coach Jim Schwartz are fourth (312.2). Cleveland (7-4), however, is one game ahead of the Bills (6-5), though both remain outside of playoff position. Read more at ESPN game preview... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Spoiler Alert: Week 13 Mike Pettine's Cleveland Browns turnaround built on experience NFL.com Preview: Browns at Bills NFL.com Game Center Team Stats: Bills Browns Total Yds/Game.... 322.9 366.9 Total Rush............. 97.5 117.5 Total Pass............. 225.5 249.4 Points/Game.......... 20.0 17.4 Time of Poss.......... 29.4 28.8 ---------------------------------------------- Yds/Gm Allowed... 312.2 367.1 Rush Yards........... 98.4 134.9 Pass Yards........... 213.8 232.2 Points Allowed........ 18.8 19.9 Source: NFL.com Overall Offense: Bills - 24th; Browns - 10th Overall Defense: Bills - 4th; Browns - 21st MatchUp Comparison via SportingCharts.com Injury Report: Buffalo Bills NAME POSITION INJURY WED. THU. FRI. GAME STATUS Carpenter, Dan K Right Groin LP LP LP Probable Gragg, Chris TE Knee DNP DNP DNP Out Rambo, Bacarri S Hamstring LP DNP DNP Out Smith, Lee TE Illness DNP - - - Woods, Robert WR Ankle LP LP LP Probable Wynn, Jarius DE Knee DNP DNP DNP Out Source: BuffaloBills.com Cleveland Browns NAME POSITION INJURY WED. THU. FRI. GAME STATUS Joe Thomas T -- Full Participation in Practice -- Tashaun Gipson S Knee Did Not Participate In Practice Out Jordan Cameron TE Concussion Limited Participation in Practice Questionable Marlon Moore WR Hamstring Did Not Participate In Practice Out Jabaal Sheard LB Foot Did Not Participate In Practice Questionable Karlos Dansby LB Knee Did Not Participate In Practice Out Barkevious Mingo LB Shoulder Full Participation in Practice Probable Ahtyba Rubin DT Back Limited Participation in Practice Questionable Source: NFL.com Practice Status Game Status DNP = Did Not Participate in Practice Out = Player will not play LP = Limited Participation - Less than 100% of normal reps Doubtful = 25% chance a player will play FP = Full Participation - 100% of a player's normal repetitions Questionable = 50% chance a player will play Out = Player will not play Probable = 75% chance a player will play (-) = Not Listed = No practice status available (-) = Not Listed - No game status available The Odds: Line: Bills -2 Over/Under: 41.5 Source: The LineMakers Up to date lines... if you're in Vegas. My Thoughts on the Game: I honestly can't remember a season like this in all my years of following this team. Since the start of the season we've had a new owner, Kelly Tough, a new QB, a Snowvember, bitter losses, a beat down destruction of the Jets, the wonderful support for Talley, and now... a must win game to enter December with visions of meaningful games in our heads. It's been such a crazy year! ...and we have another 5 games to go. At home, against the Browns, we need to get another big win this week. But, it won't be easy. Sure, the Browns are the worst ranked Defense overall that we've faced all season. But that's largely due to their run defense. The Browns are currently ranked 29th in the league against the run, giving up 135 yds/gm. However, their pass defense is ranked 8th, as well as their scoring rank. Hence it seems easy to run on them, but not score so much. And what is our offense's weakness... running and scoring. So, I expect a pretty close game. It also won't surprise me to see the Bills get ultra smart and come out throwing, no way anyone will expect that! Seriously, this should be the week we get our run game back on track. I certainly hope so. If we can't do it against the Browns, it just can't be done. Here's what I'll be watching for: 1. Our Offensive game plan. Of all the games to pound it on the ground, this should be it. Hopefully, we do and we find success. 2. Donte Whitner. All I want to see from him is Freddie plowing over him with a big stiff arm. Is that too much to ask? Otherwise, I expect him to be largely a non factor. Imagine that. 3. Mario Williams. He's been an absolute terror the last few weeks. I look forward to him destroying Hoyer. 4. Marrone vs Pettine. These two should be quite familiar with each other. It'll be interesting to see who comes out with a better game plan, a more fired up team, and ultimately who makes the better adjustments at half time. Go Bills!

I would add to that.... what good young QBs are they going to find as well? Is there anyone in the league currently to trade for that's a sure fire upgrade? Are there any top "sleeper" draft prospects (considering we don't have a first round pick)? I honestly don't know. So, if you consider next year we'll have Orton/EJ and perhaps another questionable signing (i.e. Bradford, RG3, mid-round draft pick, etc.), my question then becomes what has Hackett shown to make anyone believe that in year 3 he'll suddenly wake up and figure out how to put our current players in the best position to win? Essentially, I think we're in a position where it's easier to upgrade the offensive design and play calling (i.e. new OC) than it is the QB and possibly line. I would add that I'm also highly skeptical of replacing Marrone. I feel the team is close to breaking through. If you bring in a new HC, that invariably means overhaul of assistants, defensive/offensive schemes, many players, and so forth. I truly don't think we need to do all that to become a winning franchise. But, we do need to upgrade our offensive production and I've seen no improvement from year 1 to year 2 with our current offense. Hence, to keep status quo and hope year 3 sudnly it all clicks seems illogical.

I'm saying that our present talent is underperforming based on the coaching staff and design of the offense. So, yes, there is a lot of potential talent on the offensive side of the ball, to that I agree with you. But, I contend that with our current offensive philospohy and coaching each individual's talent is not going to be fully realized. The debate on this board seems to take two sides... 1) coaching is fine, we need a franchise QB, 2 Guards, and TE. And (2) coaching is not fine, we need that more than new players players. I'm in the later group. I honestly don't think it matters which players we sign this off season, with the current OC and design of our offense, they're going to struggle and underperform against the better teams in the league.

That's pretty much how I see it. You gotta spend the money somewhere. We don't have a QB to throw big money at. We have a couple years before we have to dump big money at an OT. Our WRs are cheap for several years. LBs are young. So if you don't spend the money to keep this line together, where are you spending it? Pay the man.

Bills' fans are cheap.

But couldn't you make many of those same arguements about the defense just a short time ago? A. Williams was no good as a corner. McKelvin was a bust. Marcel was underperforming and a distraction. M.Williams needed to be traded. Then what happened? We got good defensive coaching, along with a few good player acquisitions. Now.... we have this uber talented defense. It's hard to have one without the other. Talented players make the coaches look good, but good coaches bring out the talent in the players. We have good players on offense. They're just consistently being put in difficult positions due to the scheme. When I see the formation and know the RB is getting the ball and hitting the A gap, I'm sure the defense does as well. So, where does the problem lie? With the line for not blocking? The RB for not breaking the tackles? Or the coach for asking his players to perform under such a circumstance?

Is Marv shivering from the cold or something to marble his own catch phrase?

I completely and emphatically agree with everything you've observed, as well. The one thing holding this team back is the offense, that much is clear. And, yes, we can stand to improve the QB, TE, and Guard positons. But, the offense as a whole is underperforming based on the overall talent and resouces that have been put into it. IMO, largely because of situational playcalling and the overall design and "adaptability" of our offense. The coaches are responsible for those aspects of the game, not the players. Let me be clear, I like many of the things Marrone has done and am by no means saying he should be fired. However, the offensive disfunction is squarely on the shoulders of the Offensive Coordinator who has had 2 years to figure it out. How many more years do you allow him to figure out how to do his job? I think Marrone has the toughest decision of his tenure upcoming, and it likely will seal his fate and ours for the next several years.

You never want to hear of anyone going through something like this. Talley was one of my heros, easily the most over looked player on those teams. My prayers go out to him and his family. I've often thought that if there really is a curse on this team, it stems from the unceremonious dumping of so many of our greatest players after they gave so much of themselves to the City and the team. I know the NFL is a business and you can't keep players forever but those teams and many of those players were special. Their retirement from the Bills should have been given special comsideration. Maybe the team will right one more wrong and give Talley the support he needs and deserves.

me think someone doth troll too much

Under normal circumstances, I would agree with you. But, the Bills just got a new owner. So it's expected some changes could occur. Actually, I think this team is in better place than its been for quite some time, regarding bringing in top flight coaches. I suspect in recent years Ralph was willing to pay top dollar (if you believe the rumors at the time Shanny was shopping), but his age and lack of public transition plan made it unlikely anyone would come here, because there was a perceived lack of long term stability. Now, we have new owners, guaranteed staying in Buffalo, deep pockets, new stadium talks, loaded roster (albeit a few holes, i.e. QB), rabid fan base. The only real knock is the small market. But, I fail to see how anyone could look at coaching in Buffalo and not think it's a good spot to be, at this point in time.

Quite honestly, I came into this season just hoping for an 8-8 or 9-7 season. It's been a decade since we've had that! Yeah, a playoff spot is what we all want, but when you've been a losing franchise for as long as we have, you have to crawl before you can walk. It seems like the Bills are slowly crawling out of their losing ways. Yes, I know a playoff spot was in their grasp this season. But, when I think back to July, this is about where I thought the team would be. So, I try to temper my despair with the notion that this team is finally playing hard and looking more and more like a team that wants to compete each week. I give a lot of credit to Marrone and Whaley for that. I'm not nearly as certain as some are that Pegula should clean house. With that said, our biggest weakness is the Offensive Coordinator position. Marrone and company have to see that and make a change. Yes, we have QB and line issues. But a good OC can scheme around alot of that and at least make them look respectable. All too often our offense has looked high schoolish. And that's not on the players, it's on the scheme that's been implemented by our OC. IMO, this team is really close. Make one big change (OC) and a few smaller ones, and we're a team that should be seen as a post season contender. (Oh yeah... do whatever it takes to keep this defense together.. Hughes and Dareus need to be re-signed!)

Win your division and you're in... even if your division sucks. I have zero problems with that. If the league feels having teams with losing records in the playoffs, then change the divisions not the format.

Excellent article! It's amazing how what may seem like the worst of times can bring out the very best in people. Everyone in Buffalo, including the Ford Family and Lions staff, are the very best of people. It makes me proud, it makes me wish I was there to help too, it makes me wanna Shout. Go Bills... Go Buffalo!

The game is being played on Monday night, due to the weather this past week. Hence, it kinda is appropriate to call it a monday night game. What is really bad is that it took an act of God to get the Bills to "host" a Monday Night game again!

Or could it be the team that prevents the other from scoring more will win? Pretty much sums up our offense philosophy. Thanks. I wonder sometimes if I should keep compiling the information into a pre-game thread, with 26CB's excellent game preparation thread already in existence. Nice to know some find it a worthwhile endeavor.

Week 12: New York Jets at Buffalo Bills Monday, November 24, 2014 at 7:00pm (at Ford Field, Detroit) TV Network: CBS (TV Map) Announcers: Spero Dedes, Solomon Wilcots and Steve Tasker DirecTV: 706 Bills Radio: On the call: John Murphy (play by play), Mark Kelso (analyst), Sal Capaccio (sideline) Flagship: Buffalo – WGR550 (550AM); Toronto - 590 The Fan; Rochester - WCMF (96.5) and WROC (950AM); Syracuse - WKRL (100.9/WKLL 94.9) Sirius/XM: 102 (Internet 803) ================================================================= Game Preview: Before attempting to dig their playoff hopes out of a deep hole, the Buffalo Bills will first need to dig themselves out of snow-covered Buffalo. The New York Jets have been digging for answers all season. After more than five feet of snow blanketed Buffalo and buried Ralph Wilson Stadium, the Bills will travel to Detroit to play their "home" game against the Jets on Monday night. Buffalo has won three of the past four meetings with New York, and Orton tossed four TDs -- including a 61-yarder to Sammy Watkins -- in a 43-23 road victory in Week 8. Read more at ESPN game preview... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Spoiler Alert: Week 12 JetNation Preview NFL.com Preview: Jets at Bills NFL.com Game Center Team Stats: Bills Jets Total Yds/Game.... 321.6 319.4 Total Rush............. 95.6 140.9 Total Pass............. 226.0 178.5 Points/Game.......... 20.0 17.4 Time of Poss.......... 29.2 30.5 ---------------------------------------------- Yds/Gm Allowed... 321.6 323.7 Rush Yards........... 99.0 83.2 Pass Yards........... 222.6 240.5 Points Allowed........ 20.4 26.5 Source: NFL.com Overall Offense: Bills - 25th; Jets - 26th Overall Defense: Bills - 6th; Jets - 7th MatchUp Comparison via SportingCharts.com Injury Report: Buffalo Bills NAME POSITION INJURY WED. THU. FRI. GAME STATUS Brooks, Ron CB Groin LP LP LP Questionable Carpenter, Dan K Right Groin LP FP FP Probable Goodwin, Marquise WR Ankle FP FP FP Probable Hogan, Chris WR Hip FP FP FP Probable Jackson, Fred RB Groin LP LP LP Questionable Lawson, Manny DE Ankle LP FP FP Probable Orton, Kyle QB Toe LP FP FP Probable Summers, Frank FB Neck FP FP FP Probable Urbik, Kraig G Shoulder LP FP FP Probable Watkins, Sammy WR Groin FP FP FP Probable Wynn, Jarius DE Knee DNP DNP DNP Out Source: BuffaloBills.com New York Jets NAME POSITION INJURY WED. THU. FRI. GAME STATUS Aboushi, Oday OL Shoulder FP FP FP Probable Barnes, Antwan LB Knee FP FP FP Probable Colon, Willie G Knee FP FP FP Probable Graham, T.J. WR Neck FP FP FP Probable Harris, David LB Shoulder FP FP FP Probable Ivory, Chris RB Shoulder FP FP FP Probable Jarrett, Jaiquawn S Calf LP FP FP Probable Johnson, Chris RB Knee FP FP FP Probable Mangold, Nick C Shoulder FP FP FP Probable Reilly, Trevor OLB Knee FP FP FP Probable Salas, Greg WR Wrist FP FP FP Probable Smith, Geno QB Rt. Shoulder FP FP FP Probable Walls, Darrin CB Calf FP FP FP Probable Source: NewYorkJets.com Practice Status Game Status DNP = Did Not Participate in Practice Out = Player will not play LP = Limited Participation - Less than 100% of normal reps Doubtful = 25% chance a player will play FP = Full Participation - 100% of a player's normal repetitions Questionable = 50% chance a player will play Out = Player will not play Probable = 75% chance a player will play (-) = Not Listed = No practice status available (-) = Not Listed - No game status available The Odds: Line: Bills -2.5 Over/Under: 41.5 Source: The LineMakers Up to date lines... if you're in Vegas. My Thoughts on the Game: As if the season couldn’t seem to be going much worse, now mother nature steals a home game from us. I hope all my friends and family in Buffalo are doing well! Regarding the game.. well, we get two bad teams facing each other in a neutral site. This has all the makings of a dog of a game. The Bills think they’re still fighting for a playoff spot, while the Jets are just trying to hang on to some dignity. What I expect: 1. The Defense will come out strong and play a good solid game. 2. The Offense will look listless and predictably conservative at all the wrong times. 3. The team that makes the least mistakes will win. Yay. Go Bills!

I think he's more of an example of too many fan's unrealistic expectations of every position being filled with HOF players that never make a bad play, let alone have a bad game.

This. Our offense has been on a steady march to the bottom of every significant measure since Marrone and Hackett took the helm. You can see the players regressing with each game. I contend the coaching staff is doing everything in their power to put the players in a position to fail and practically daring them to succeed. The problem with their boring, predictable, basic and simplified game plan is that it forces the players to be perfect. So, when a decent player drops a ball on 3rd and 8, everyone says... the coach didn't drop the ball. No, perhaps not. But, the coach is the one who put the players in continual 3rd and longs all game long and amplifyied the likelihood of the drop. Not to mention when your game plan is overly simplistic and predictable, you're asking your players to succeed when the opposing team knows exactly what's coming. To put that another way, we all know the Patriots cheated and stole signals. And we all know that gave them an unfair advantage because they knew exactly what the opposing team was about to do. Marrone and Hackett are essentially giving every team they face that advantage by saying here's our offense, everyone knows what it is, we're not disguising anything. And then they expect our 5 linemen to block 7 defenders on each run and blame "execution" when they can't?