Dan

Awesome! I won't tell you what I paid for mine then either. If you see a tall dude in Bills gear and an ugly brown hat... that's me. lol It's going to be 4 of us. Me and my sister, Bills fans! And her husband and his dad, life long Broncos fans (that's how we got the tickets: he knows some season holders). Right now the debate is can we force them to go to the Bills backer party and tailgate!!

This is great news... but do we have to resurrect old threads and change the title to report it? It may keep the overall thread count down, but you have to sift through 60 some odd posts to see what's going on. Is it really better to have few, looong threads than several smaller ones?

Jauron ball did it every time. Josh Reed motioned in, which ever side he stopped on, that's where the RB was going every single time. Hackett said he studied previous Bills offenses, looks like he took notes!

...and more informative than all the talking heads.

Everyone here is talking about the Bills defense getting to Manning and keeping it close. That's all well and good. But, in my mind, the key to this game is our offensive line. The Broncos have 2 elite pass rushers on the edge and huge Pot Roast clogging up the middle. I'm not even sure Orton wil survive this game let alone score points.

Orton has had this game circled for months! It's his chance to go back home and prove to Denver they chose the wrong QB over him! Manning is in for a shitstorm of Orton bombs! Trap game? Let's stop making excuses for Denver when they get rolled by Gray! Seriously... with our offensive line, does anyone else think Ware and Miller may kill Orton before the second quarter?

I'm gonna be there! It's a rare Bills game that I have the luck of attending. My brother in law (Broncos fan) scored us great seats, 3 rows up from the visitors bench about 45yd line. Can't wait to see Orton out duel Manning.

Trick question! All QBs not on the Bills' roster are better than any QB currently playing on the Bills' roster.

Precisely. And we've gone from Gailey/Modkins to Marrone/Hacket. Isn't it time we find a real NFL coordinator? Someone that can actually do something other than tread water and hope to get lucky. Unless, of course, anyone thinks we can upgrade our QB to a top 5 talent next season; what's our choice? Stay the course and hope we get lucky?

Exactly! He's doing what he always does... and right now it's easy to say this win was hollow, we won't make the playoffs. But, you could just as easily blame the position of Jupiter as it's rising through his anus for our impending failure. Why? Because we play 3 of the best teams in the league over the next 4 weeks and have little room for error. But, this way, he gets to come back in a few weeks and say.. .see I'm smart, I told you so. It's boring, it's predictable. No, the Bills may not make the playoffs. Yes, our offense blows. But, you know what... we just won a game, we're 7-5 for the first time since 2000!, and we're playing in December for a chance at a playoff spot. I'm going to enjoy every minute of it. (and not read anything JS says)

Actually, I said compare this year to last year, not Gailey's last year... but ok. Should we compare points scored when some of those points are scored by the defense? If you just look at the YPG rank, we've dropped 5 places since Gailey's last year (10 since his good year!). Even that number could be skewed if we factor in starting field position and number of possessions. Regardless of what measure or point in time we're looking at, the trend remains the same. And that is a trend of little to no improvement. Yet, isn't Orton supposed to be an upgrade to Fitz or EJ or Thad? Isn't Sammy an upgrade to Stevie? Isn't Boobie and upgrade to whoever else we had? Shouldn't we expect players to get better the longer they play under one scheme, like most of our offensive players have? And to your point about defenses taking away our strengths... I agree. Which is all the more reason our offense should be mixing things up. But, they're not. We're running the same offense that we have all season, regardless of opponent.

And that's the point... we don't have one of the top 5 QBs in the league. So, why draw up a game plan that asks your QB to come out throwing, especially when its against a defense that excels at defending the pass? As stated upthread, there's ways to design an offense to mask your player's weaknesses. All coaches do that, yet our staff are reluctant to do that. Our guards suck, so why do the majority of the run plays follow them? Our QB sucks, so why do we keep throwing deep outs? Our TEs suck, so why do we put all 3 on the field at the same time!? Why do we rarely see screens? Where's the misdirection? Play action? Where's any sort of creative play design that would mask a weakness and take advantage of an aggressive defense that's stacking the box? Yes, Orton makes bad reads and misses throws. That's not the point. The point is the OC is consistently putting him in the position to miss those exact same reads and throws over and over. And its the same with the run game. The bottom line is this... this team is in all likelihood goinf to miss the playoffs again. We have a top 5 ranked defense, and a bottom 10 ranked offense. If you look at all major indices, the defense has improved this year in comparison to last year. On the other hand, a similar comparison shows the offense is either the same or slightly worse, statistically. Supposedly, we upgraded our line and WR positions with draft picks, added more depth at RB, upgraded the QB position, and we have a second year in the system. At what point do you say the offensive coaching isn't getting it done?

I'm just glad I'm not the only one looking around wondering who that guy was!

Good to see you back, Bill! I gotta say, Kyle Williams shoving Manziel down like that was amazingly awesome! Regarding Sammy, anyone think he may be hitting the proverbial "rookie wall"?

Thanks. LOL I think. We got lucky with that crapastic offense, but I'll take it. For at least one more week... we're in the thick of it!

You're very welcome! Can someone please explain how Thigpen is active and expecting to play, while Mike Wiiliams isn't even dressed again? What has The Caveman done to get in the dog house all season?

Week 13: Cleveland Browns at Buffalo Bills Monday, November 30, 2014 at 1:00pm TV Network: CBS (TV Map) Announcers: Greg Gumbel, Trent Green, and Evan Washburn DirecTV: 706 Bills Radio: On the call: John Murphy (play by play), Mark Kelso (analyst), Sal Capaccio (sideline) Flagship: Buffalo – WGR550 (550AM); Toronto - 590 The Fan; Rochester - WCMF (96.5) and WROC (950AM); Syracuse - WKRL (100.9/WKLL 94.9) Sirius/XM: 119 (Internet 803) ================================================================= Game Preview: Mike Pettine received the opportunity to coach the Cleveland Browns after one successful season running the Buffalo Bills' defense. Thanks to an expedited snow thaw, Pettine returns to suburban Buffalo for the first time Sunday as the Browns and Bills each try to improve their playoff chances. While Pettine's Browns rank 20th in total defense this season (367.1 ypg), the Bills under defensive coordinator and former Detroit coach Jim Schwartz are fourth (312.2). Cleveland (7-4), however, is one game ahead of the Bills (6-5), though both remain outside of playoff position. Read more at ESPN game preview... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Spoiler Alert: Week 13 Mike Pettine's Cleveland Browns turnaround built on experience NFL.com Preview: Browns at Bills NFL.com Game Center Team Stats: Bills Browns Total Yds/Game.... 322.9 366.9 Total Rush............. 97.5 117.5 Total Pass............. 225.5 249.4 Points/Game.......... 20.0 17.4 Time of Poss.......... 29.4 28.8 ---------------------------------------------- Yds/Gm Allowed... 312.2 367.1 Rush Yards........... 98.4 134.9 Pass Yards........... 213.8 232.2 Points Allowed........ 18.8 19.9 Source: NFL.com Overall Offense: Bills - 24th; Browns - 10th Overall Defense: Bills - 4th; Browns - 21st MatchUp Comparison via SportingCharts.com Injury Report: Buffalo Bills NAME POSITION INJURY WED. THU. FRI. GAME STATUS Carpenter, Dan K Right Groin LP LP LP Probable Gragg, Chris TE Knee DNP DNP DNP Out Rambo, Bacarri S Hamstring LP DNP DNP Out Smith, Lee TE Illness DNP - - - Woods, Robert WR Ankle LP LP LP Probable Wynn, Jarius DE Knee DNP DNP DNP Out Source: BuffaloBills.com Cleveland Browns NAME POSITION INJURY WED. THU. FRI. GAME STATUS Joe Thomas T -- Full Participation in Practice -- Tashaun Gipson S Knee Did Not Participate In Practice Out Jordan Cameron TE Concussion Limited Participation in Practice Questionable Marlon Moore WR Hamstring Did Not Participate In Practice Out Jabaal Sheard LB Foot Did Not Participate In Practice Questionable Karlos Dansby LB Knee Did Not Participate In Practice Out Barkevious Mingo LB Shoulder Full Participation in Practice Probable Ahtyba Rubin DT Back Limited Participation in Practice Questionable Source: NFL.com Practice Status Game Status DNP = Did Not Participate in Practice Out = Player will not play LP = Limited Participation - Less than 100% of normal reps Doubtful = 25% chance a player will play FP = Full Participation - 100% of a player's normal repetitions Questionable = 50% chance a player will play Out = Player will not play Probable = 75% chance a player will play (-) = Not Listed = No practice status available (-) = Not Listed - No game status available The Odds: Line: Bills -2 Over/Under: 41.5 Source: The LineMakers Up to date lines... if you're in Vegas. My Thoughts on the Game: I honestly can't remember a season like this in all my years of following this team. Since the start of the season we've had a new owner, Kelly Tough, a new QB, a Snowvember, bitter losses, a beat down destruction of the Jets, the wonderful support for Talley, and now... a must win game to enter December with visions of meaningful games in our heads. It's been such a crazy year! ...and we have another 5 games to go. At home, against the Browns, we need to get another big win this week. But, it won't be easy. Sure, the Browns are the worst ranked Defense overall that we've faced all season. But that's largely due to their run defense. The Browns are currently ranked 29th in the league against the run, giving up 135 yds/gm. However, their pass defense is ranked 8th, as well as their scoring rank. Hence it seems easy to run on them, but not score so much. And what is our offense's weakness... running and scoring. So, I expect a pretty close game. It also won't surprise me to see the Bills get ultra smart and come out throwing, no way anyone will expect that! Seriously, this should be the week we get our run game back on track. I certainly hope so. If we can't do it against the Browns, it just can't be done. Here's what I'll be watching for: 1. Our Offensive game plan. Of all the games to pound it on the ground, this should be it. Hopefully, we do and we find success. 2. Donte Whitner. All I want to see from him is Freddie plowing over him with a big stiff arm. Is that too much to ask? Otherwise, I expect him to be largely a non factor. Imagine that. 3. Mario Williams. He's been an absolute terror the last few weeks. I look forward to him destroying Hoyer. 4. Marrone vs Pettine. These two should be quite familiar with each other. It'll be interesting to see who comes out with a better game plan, a more fired up team, and ultimately who makes the better adjustments at half time. Go Bills!

I would add to that.... what good young QBs are they going to find as well? Is there anyone in the league currently to trade for that's a sure fire upgrade? Are there any top "sleeper" draft prospects (considering we don't have a first round pick)? I honestly don't know. So, if you consider next year we'll have Orton/EJ and perhaps another questionable signing (i.e. Bradford, RG3, mid-round draft pick, etc.), my question then becomes what has Hackett shown to make anyone believe that in year 3 he'll suddenly wake up and figure out how to put our current players in the best position to win? Essentially, I think we're in a position where it's easier to upgrade the offensive design and play calling (i.e. new OC) than it is the QB and possibly line. I would add that I'm also highly skeptical of replacing Marrone. I feel the team is close to breaking through. If you bring in a new HC, that invariably means overhaul of assistants, defensive/offensive schemes, many players, and so forth. I truly don't think we need to do all that to become a winning franchise. But, we do need to upgrade our offensive production and I've seen no improvement from year 1 to year 2 with our current offense. Hence, to keep status quo and hope year 3 sudnly it all clicks seems illogical.

I'm saying that our present talent is underperforming based on the coaching staff and design of the offense. So, yes, there is a lot of potential talent on the offensive side of the ball, to that I agree with you. But, I contend that with our current offensive philospohy and coaching each individual's talent is not going to be fully realized. The debate on this board seems to take two sides... 1) coaching is fine, we need a franchise QB, 2 Guards, and TE. And (2) coaching is not fine, we need that more than new players players. I'm in the later group. I honestly don't think it matters which players we sign this off season, with the current OC and design of our offense, they're going to struggle and underperform against the better teams in the league.

That's pretty much how I see it. You gotta spend the money somewhere. We don't have a QB to throw big money at. We have a couple years before we have to dump big money at an OT. Our WRs are cheap for several years. LBs are young. So if you don't spend the money to keep this line together, where are you spending it? Pay the man.

Bills' fans are cheap.

But couldn't you make many of those same arguements about the defense just a short time ago? A. Williams was no good as a corner. McKelvin was a bust. Marcel was underperforming and a distraction. M.Williams needed to be traded. Then what happened? We got good defensive coaching, along with a few good player acquisitions. Now.... we have this uber talented defense. It's hard to have one without the other. Talented players make the coaches look good, but good coaches bring out the talent in the players. We have good players on offense. They're just consistently being put in difficult positions due to the scheme. When I see the formation and know the RB is getting the ball and hitting the A gap, I'm sure the defense does as well. So, where does the problem lie? With the line for not blocking? The RB for not breaking the tackles? Or the coach for asking his players to perform under such a circumstance?

Is Marv shivering from the cold or something to marble his own catch phrase?

I completely and emphatically agree with everything you've observed, as well. The one thing holding this team back is the offense, that much is clear. And, yes, we can stand to improve the QB, TE, and Guard positons. But, the offense as a whole is underperforming based on the overall talent and resouces that have been put into it. IMO, largely because of situational playcalling and the overall design and "adaptability" of our offense. The coaches are responsible for those aspects of the game, not the players. Let me be clear, I like many of the things Marrone has done and am by no means saying he should be fired. However, the offensive disfunction is squarely on the shoulders of the Offensive Coordinator who has had 2 years to figure it out. How many more years do you allow him to figure out how to do his job? I think Marrone has the toughest decision of his tenure upcoming, and it likely will seal his fate and ours for the next several years.

You never want to hear of anyone going through something like this. Talley was one of my heros, easily the most over looked player on those teams. My prayers go out to him and his family. I've often thought that if there really is a curse on this team, it stems from the unceremonious dumping of so many of our greatest players after they gave so much of themselves to the City and the team. I know the NFL is a business and you can't keep players forever but those teams and many of those players were special. Their retirement from the Bills should have been given special comsideration. Maybe the team will right one more wrong and give Talley the support he needs and deserves.