Dan

The ownership and Whaley have all said they want stability and they're willing to put ..their.. money where their mouth is to prove it. Having a coaching staff under contract doesn't seem to be a hinderance to the owners when making decisions. Why does it concern the fanbase so much? Bills fans are cheap!

I get where you're going. But, seriously, if we're so beaten down by this team and its losing, that even making the playoffs seems depressing... Then its time to turn off all football for a while. Yes, the Dolphins got beat easily are are 1 and done. But, in the first year of a new HC after a pretty bad start... They improved enough to be one of the 6 best teams in the AFC. That's a heck of a year by any standard! The way I see it, and perhaps I'm out dated, but when you've been as bad as this team had been for as long as it has been; you have to start small. To expect us to go from ...this. To Superbowl in 1 year is just unrealistic. First we (and I mean everyone from the FO to the coaches to the players and yes to the fans) have to learn to how to win more than they lose, learn to expect good things, make the playoffs, deal with that added attention, and then win in the playoffs. Its rare for any team to do that in 1 season. And when you're starting with a dumpster fire, its even more improbable. Would I be happy for a playoff spot? Hell, I'm still hoping for a professional NFL team to show up every Sunday. So, yeah, I'd love to see us make the playoffs and let the outcome be as it may. ...for a couple years

It almost certainly good have been handled better. In fact, pretty much everything they've said since Rex's firing could have been communicated better.

In a few years... Yeah, people will only see the win/loss record and forget the particulars of his first game as HC. However, if anyone is currently looking at that game and say... "But you didn't win. Your team lacked focus. Why didn't you start so and so?" Then, you do not want to work for them, because they're clueless. Lynn is getting serious looks this off season, not because he was a HC for a week, but because he took over as OC after week 2 and guided the Bills to the best rushing attack in the league and overall good offensive stats for the season.

Winning that game does nothing to help the team, but there were several things that could help the team by benching him. So benching him was absolutely the right decision. He had a groin injury. They needed to evaluate EJ. The game was essentially a preseason game. The only reason to play him is if he was within reach of meeting some performance-based bonus. If Lynn or Tyrod can't understand that, then i'm not sure what it says about them.

Did he report in parallel to Whaley and the owner? Honestly, I don't know. Nor do I think it matters in the end. If one of the people under me, went and talked directly to the owner of the company ans walked out of that meeting fired, I don't see it as a reflection on me. And even if I did talk to my boss and find out why he fired them, I wouldn't tell anyone else. Its none of their business. Maybe I'd have a better line than Whaley used. But either way... To focus on the what they did or didn't know, when they knew it, whatever... Is all sideshow blather. I totally agree with Whaley... Let's focus on finding a new HC and winning. People can say the press doesn't impact the decisions or the process, but they do. Like I said, I deal with the press and public opinion all the time. And when you have to spend the majority of your time and energy answering periphery questions and accustations and trying to refute completely made up claims... All because a realtively small number of people are shouting at you. It does affect your work, what you're doing, and how successful you can be. This is all a distraction. That's all it is. And if a HC candidate buys into this distraction, then I wouldn't want to hire him any way.

I don't diagree with most of what you've said. The person(s) prepping Whaley didn't do a good job. As an organization, they all under estimated the degree to which the press and public were going to jump on this firing. I think they started to realize that and had to have the owners actually come out and respond. And it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn in a month that there's new PR people in place within the organization. With all that, though, I still just don't see how this all makes Whaley look so diminutive. In the interview, it would be extremely easy to say... That is how our organizational structure was; because of A, B, C. This is how it will be going forward. And you have team Pegs there to say, yep that's right. End of discussion as far as the HC candidate is concerned. Of course, the media will ask the new guy all sorts of questions about who he reports to and if there's any issues with the owner and they probably won't like his canned answers either... But we can all argue over that in another month

You forgot one key word that I said. ....usually. Public Relations people develop these say nothing answers and talking points, then instruct you to go back to them at every possible opportunity. The end result is nothing new is let out and nothing bad is said. And..usually..the media peoples will walk away thinking what a waste. For a variety of reasons, this time, they circled the wagons and went for Whaley's head afterward. But if you listen to what he said... He gave no indication of dysfunction, as others have said... Rex did not report to Whaley; he reported to Pegs. So why is it dysfunctional for Whaley to not know what Pegs and Rex talked about? He gave no indication that Russ was in any way involved or would be in the new search. Yet, people are still bringing his name up as being involved. And so on. I'm not saying Whaley did a great job because he answered all the questions and clarified the machinations at OBD. I'm suggesting that he said exactly what was instructed by the PR dept, which is his job in this situation. The fact that it has blowed up into all this dumpster fire talk, IMO, is people projecting the past onto the present and being stirred by a media core that are loving the added interest by it all.

I agree. I don't think a lot of people have listened to it. Why do I keep reading about Brandon? He wasn't there. The only mention of him was Whaley saying he has other responsibilities and isn't involved. Yet, somehow, Russ' name keeps getting thrown about like he was there. People are just projecting past criticisms onto the current situation. That's all. If anything I feel more positive, because he said very plainly that Russ is not involved in any way. I mean isn't that what we've all been wanting for years? I disagree. Whaley did a great job. Many people think he didn't because he gave a lot of BS answers. But that was almost certainly his intent. I do alot of press events. And for the big ones, you always have a PR person give you your "talking points". These are the answers they want you to give, and tell you at every opportunity...go back to it. That's what you say. And then sit and wait for another question. Then give the same answer. Repeat until someone tells you that to leave. The answers I bolded are almost certainly PR-provided responses that he continually came back to. There are a few others he had as well. But, I guarantee he was given these answers and probably even rehearsed types of questions and when to use them. Does it give the press the answers they want... No. Does it give the public the answers they want... No. But, it gets him out of there without doing any addtional damage... Usually. And its how all big organizations typically handle press conferences, especially likely combative ones.

I finally had time to watch the Whaley press conference. I've also read half the threads here about it. ..and all I have to say is.. Holy crap!! Talk about much ado about nothing! First of all, Whaley did a great job! He clearly had several talking points the PR people wanted him to stick to... And he did. I'm focused on winning. I was not privy to that conversation. The ownership issued a statement. Etc. etc. he stayed on point and gave the press zero additional bait. So what do they all do... Begin the spin and speculation because that's all they have. Could/should he have been more candid and discussed the inner workings and conversations? Maybe. Maybe that would have altered all this specualtion about ownerships involvement, Russ' involvement, the FO structure, etc. But, clearly, the owners and Whaley don't want that information out there and that's that. So he stone walled the press. But, of course, they still have papers to sell (or clicks to get), so they're gonna write something! But, a few points.... Whaley seemed more confident than I've ever seen him. For the first time it seems he's actually making the decisions and it's not a committee decision. We have a "football guy" running the show. Maybe he sucks. I suppose we'll find out. But, it's all on him for the first time ever, it seems. Also... What's with all the Tyrod specualtion? He clearly said... If the Bills were still in the hunt, Tyrod would have started. Period. The decision to sit him and look at EJ, was clearly a business decision. They had one game left to decide if EJ had progressed enough to stay on the roster as a backup. That's it, IMO. Why leaveTyrod in a meaningless game, risk injury and still not have an idea how far EJ had prgogressed? Yeah... People are definitely projecting past dysfunction on the current situation. I get it. It's easy. It's fun. It drives readership. But, let's see how Whaley does. This offseason is the make or break time for him.

Definitely agree! I wouldn't reach or probably even take one in the first round. But, every year it seems a good QB is found in the 2nd or 3rd time rounds. So, unless we suck dramatically and get a top 3 pick, its all a crap shoot. So... Keep shooting till you find one.

I don't have a problem with this approach at all. Our offense isn't why we lost most games... Sure it needs to improve specifically in the passing game. But no need to overhaul what isn't broke. However, I would still draft a QB ...this year and every year... Until all doubts are lifted, not only about Tyrod but also the #2. If you wait till your current QB sucks so bad you need the #1 overall pick, you're a piss poor franchise waiting to collapse.

1 and 2 are precisely what most everyone was clamoring for the final couple of weeks of the season. When the decision is made to do it... It's immediately construed as whaley wants to cut Tyrod and start EJ. You really can't please people.

I've read most of this thread and you are repeatedly defending Rex based on these stats. But the primary issue I think you're overlooking is that you're assuming Rex was fired based on the performance of the Defense alone. Rex was a HC. Schwartz is a DC. Two completely different jobs with different responsibilities, demands, and performance measures. The Bills, as a team, were disorganized and undisciplined. The team's record did not improve at all, but more so, neither did the individual attitudes, performances, or apparent understanding of what they needed to do. Add to that the poor game plans, the poor game day management, and probably discord behind the scenes (i.e. private meeting with the owner that gets you fired). That's just a few of the reasons a HC gets fired before his contract is up. Had the Bills won 10games, I'm sure a lot of stuff gets washed away. But, when you're not winning and you're dealing with all that disorganization? Something has to give. By all accounts, Rex was given all he asked for in terms of coaches, players, and control. And the result was not a better team. If anything, this team seems less cohesive than when St. Doug left! And lastly, I don't think anyone thinks that ...just plug in a new HC and we're Super Bowl bound. And few have complete faith in Whaley to get it right. But, Pegula is giving him the reigns, it appears. If he doesn't, guess who's gone next? And it doesn't seem like Pegula is going to give him 3-5 years to see. So the pressure is on him to deliver. All any of us can do.. Is hope he does. Just like we all hoped Rex would deliver. But I will applaud our owners for recognizing that the current direction wasn't the right one and making a decision based on that, and not on how much money they were about to lose.

I never really liked the Rex hire. In fact, dropped the Sunday ticket this year because I knew this year would turn out like this. Rex is ok; he gives good press conference; but the vast majority of his HC career has been marked by inconsistent, under achieving, undisciplined teams. In the end, that,s what we had for the last 2 years and I'm glad to see him go. On the the next. Let's just hope this time they get it right... A good HC.. Who hires 2 good coordinators.. Not one. And not someone who decides the team we have needs to be replaced on a 3 year plan! Other teams have turned it around in one year... Damnit so can the Bills.

IMO, it's all about the coordinators. The best teams, the most consistent teams, have a strong head coach to lead the team.. Keeping everyone on the same page, disciplined, motivated, and practicing well. We've seen the HC's try to be the offensive coordinator or the defensive coordinator. It doesn't work. So, is Lynn the right guy? I have no idea. But, if he wants to run his offense or call the plays or whatever; then I say pass. As a HC, he needs to step up to the next level and manange the ENTIRE team and stop thinking like an OC.

Absolutely disagree. Discipline, teaching fundamentals, game day adjustments are just a couple of the ways a coach ..directly.. affects the players on the field

The offense make the defense do pushups all half time... Obviously they're too tired from our bad offense.

The defense is close.

I'm not good enough to know if Whaley or the rest of the FO actually know what they're doing. So, I can't speak too much to all that. Other than to say... At some point you are what your record says you are. And the Bills under Whaley et al. struggle to win 9 games and have yet to make the playoffs. At some point... You gotta hold people accountable, right or wrong. Regarding Rex and the coaching staff... I didn't like the hire then and I don't like him now. His hallmark is an undisciplined, sloppy team. And that's exactly what we have. Players getting suspended, getting days off from practicing, cheap penalties, mistakes, and lack of focus.... That's how I best describe this team. And it all stems from the head coach. I got no problem with Rex getting shown the door, I would have done it after last season's complete fail. Tyrod.... I want to like him. But, in the end, he just doesn't see the field well enough and is just inconsistent enough to cost us games. Yeah, he's good and the offense scores and all, but how many times have we needed a pass on 3rd down just to watch the ball sail or see him scramble. At some point, he has to make defenses pay. Rarely does he do it. I'm torn. I want a better QB, but he geniuinely seems to care and does do a lot of stuff good. Pretty much every other player and position on the team... See my comments on Rex. Get a new coach and many of them would turn it around. I firmly believe that. Are they all pro bowlers? No. But few teams if any have more than a couple of 3-4 true stars. The rest are role players that perform when needed. A perfect example of that is Woods. He's not Watkins, but he doesn't have to be. He just needs to be the safety valve when Watkins is doubled. We have plenty of those players. They just need a coaching staff to keep them focused, healthly and playing with a solid game plan. So, to the OP's point.... yeah, we've beat bad teams and lost to good teams. Occasionally, everyone plays tough for Rex. But can they do that consistently, week after week? Rex's teams have never done that. Do I want the whole team blowed up after the season... No. Do I want Rex gone... Yes. Other coaches have shown that you can come in and win in the 1st year. We're close, we just need to find the guy that can do that... and maybe a QB that can actually throw downfield with some accuracy. Or see if Tyrod needs glasses (ala the Wild thing).

Exactly. That's my question.... So our chances hinge on the Jags beating TN? If so... We might as well call it over now.

They could fire the GM, the scouting staff, and coaches... Set up a poll here of who to draft and have 1 of several posters here submit game plans each week, and make the play call. ..and I honestly think they'd do better. It defies the laws of nature that they can go this long without finding a competent QB or figure out how to string together enough wins to make the palyoffs. So, you ask for a name... I say they jsut need to pull their heads out of their asses and do what we all know needs to be done.

For me... The bolded part is what this loss put on clear display. I kinda half expected a loss, even started a thread suggesting that a loss today doesn't necessarily mean the season is over. But, here we are at 6-6 and more often than not, even in half our wins, we all end up with tangs of this feeling in out guts. This is not a disciplined team. It's the team Rex has has put together, the defense he wants to run, the QB he wanted... And this is what we are. Undisciplined, full of holes, and mediocre record. I have no reason to have confidence that Rex will suddenly figure it all out. 2:50 left in the first half, up by 4... What do you do? Go into a shell and piss away a possession. On the flip side, the Raiders get the ball with 30 seconds... What do they do? ...throw the damn ball down the field and get a FG to end the half. Pretty much pathetic.

To your first point, yes I would agree. When Tyrod won the starting job last year, it was obvious. He was a better QB and looked far more poised and prepared to lead the team. So, I wasn't then nor am I now, pining for EJ or some other QB. But, I will say, Tyrod's level of play seems to have leveled off this year when I was hoping he would continue to improve. Lots of really good QBs have bad halves, even bad games. But, the good ones turn it around and keep fighting. I give EJ a lot of credit for doing just that. Yes, he deserves a lot of blame for losing that game. But, the defense deserves a lot, as well. I know it's gotta be a black and white world, but can't we live in a world where even the worst players, like EJ, are capable of doing something right? I'm not saying EJ should get a shot here, I'm just suggesting that he's not the complete trainwreck so many people say he is.

I have to agree with a lot of this. I like Tyrod. I want him to be THE answer. And he's certainly the best starting QB the Bills have had in quite some time. However.... The offense goes into a shell far too often and has serious issues converting 3rd and long. That, IMO, is when the QB earns his money. He makes great plays with his legs and occasionally with his arm. But, all too often, he misses the throw on 3rd down. And I find myself wondering why we never hit receivers in stride? So, I like him. But, I'm still waiting to see how the final games play out before I go all in. What I'm afraid of the most, is he's one of these guys that does just enough to look good at times and get your hopes up, but never really puts it all together to consistently put wins together. But, to be fair, EJ played a really good 2nd half, threw for 2TDs, and left the field with the lead. That loss was not all on him, it was the very definition of a team loss.