Dan

I think you have a lot of posters, like myself, who enjoy reading the content. But rarely post. Hence if club participation is by invite only, the lurkers and random posters would miss a lot of good discussion. Even threads like tailgating for a game I often read, even though I'm not going to be there. It just allows me to live vicariously through the posters that get that opportunity.

Because if you're not headed for the HOF, you suck and shouldn't be playing. Especially if we already made up our minds!

no worries But on point 2... Yeah it goes back games but those are all games under the Rex D scheme. And we all know what a mess that was. So, it's hard to get too worked about lack of production when they had a buffoon of a game plan. And Dareus... Well he's the classic... I got paid. I'm doing the minimum. I wouldn't be surprised, nor upset, if theycut him and just ate the cap. For all his talent, his attitude and work ethic has been crap.

The problem is everyone is thinking back to how the defense played when Shwartz was here. Those guys, outside of Shaq, are all 3 years older. That's a long time in football years! They should be slowing down and pressuring the QB less with just 4 guys. I'm not sure why its so surprising. It's weird.. What the last 17 years have done to this fanbase, culminating in many of the moves made this offseason and in particular the last month. But, it's like half the fan base is not only expected the team to suck, but almost need them to suck so they can justify their hard-lined opinions. So we see everyone demanding near perfect performances, with every mistake being highlighted and blown out of proportion. Rather than talk about the good game Tyrod had, all people wanna talk about is how it wasn't good enough. Yes, the team wasn't perfect yesterday. And yes it was just the Jets. But so many people seem overly critical. I was expecting to read all the glowing comments today... But I felt like I needed to check the score again, because to read some posts it seems we really lost the game. Not the OP here (mind you). Yesterday was a good game, just about the best way you could have scripted a week one game for this team. Let's all enjoy it. let's give this team a chance. Sure, they're gonna make mistakes and lose games, but yesterday was far and away more good than bad. ...stepping down from soap box...

You're an idiot.

I personally don't have a problem clearing house of all players. But didn't we just see this... A wasted year according to the author, "The 2017 season will almost be a tryout for many players on the roster. The coaching staff and front office will know who they want or don’t want much better next February than they do today." Why does it take a full year, wasted to evaluate players? Why couldn't they have made these moves before training camp? We've seen this with different coaches and GMs. They all want "their guys". So here we go... Starting from square 1...again. Hoping the new guys are better than the old guys. I think it's justified on bioth sides...the pessimism and the optimism for the future. Personally... I'm more pessimistic. Hopefully, i'm wrong.

I don't understand the optimism for this great new plan and foundation that's going to result in a winning franchise in 2-3 years. What has this current FO and coaching staff done to warrant such unabashed optimism and confidence? Other than dump half the players on the team and roll out of the gate wth pretty abyssal performances in 3 consecutive preseason games, where's this confidence that all is right in the world coming from?

I'm guessing you were there in '91, '92 screaming for Reich to start over Kelly too? So you're sick of a guy that shouldn't be starting in the NFL and you're solution is start a 4th round rookie? Explain how you know Peterman is already a better starting QB than Tyrod. There's pretty much no chance Tyrod is gone this preseason, either. And considering Tyrod has never played the RB or Punt Returner, I don't know how you can make that claim either. You're rant seems unfounded in reality, to be honest. And a pulled hamstring in week 3 of the preseason is definitely a big deal for any player, especially your starting QB. I'm sorry but wishing for an injury to any Bills player is not something I think of when I think of die hard Bills fans. It's pretty sad what 17 years of sucking has done to this fanbase.

Why on earth would you wish for our starting QB to pull his hamstring on a stupid run? Perhaps you should think about why you're a fan of this team. Not everyone wants to see a 4th round rookie play. Nor does everyone think a "fair assessment" is warranted. I just don't understand all this Peterman love.

Who cares. Preseason or practice games or whatever. The only 2 problems with the preseason games... 1. They make season ticket holders pay for seats as though they're real games when everyone knows they're not. Just stop penalizing season ticket holders, or drop the price to reflect what they are...practices. 2. People are so jonesin' for football, that they all (fans, media, betters, everyone) try to pretend they're regular season games. They're not. Stop watching, stop putting them on tv like a real game. Stop marketing it as though... Football is back. It's not. It's just a practice game. In other words... If the world could just grasp that these games are just fancy practices, stop worrying about wins/losses, stop thinking about preseason stats, stop the marketing hype.. Then all other discussion becomes mute. The NFL created a false problem by over-hyping a practice game in an effort to make money. Now they need to fix the fabricated problem? I think its all ...rediculous.

I don't recall every claiming to be intelligent. But the intelligent ones seem to be lost in the sea of discontent.

I see lots of these "tank" threads... And people claiming to love the "plan" the FO has. But, who says there's any plan whatseoever? And where did this notion come from that we could dump all the good players from the team, lose alot of games, get the #1 pick, draft best QB ever. Then win in 2018 with rookie QB and a roster full of no other good players?? And why does anyone have any faith in this FO to suddenly start picking star players? They have zero teack record with picking good players or coaching them into a winning team. I think the drought has turned this fanbase from an intellegent, football-loving group. To peopel that think the off season is more fun than the football season. It's really perhaps the most pathetic thing I've seen...when a large portion of the fan base has completely given up on the season in August and is looking forward to next year's draft. This is what ..we've.. all become. We don't eve nhave hope anymore. So far all I can see from the current coach and FO is they've taken the last thing we Bills fans had to cling to. We can't even hope to compete like a decent team any more.

Except that several, at least, of the recently released players have been pretty productive contributors on their new teams. Its not like they got traded/cut and are now out of the league. So I'd say they've let NFL talent walk. The problem with the Bills has been crap coaching and a FO that has been clueless at building and team. And until, the new coaches and FO actually field a professional team, there's little reason to think the new bunch is better than the old bunch. Maybe they are, but maybe they're spinning their wheels just like everyone for the last 2 decades has done. Bottom line... No one has helped this team field a winning team. Not a single player, coach, scout, GM. Dump them all, keep them all. I honestly don't care. Just figure out how to compete on an NFL level, already. But, I'll say this regarding the trade - all the talk of the Bills finally having a plan is just that talk. We have yet to see this "plan" actually produce anything on the field. And it looks, at this point, that we have a solid 2-3 years of mediocrity before we know if these guys are better than the last guys.

You don't ..build.. a team and get better if you trade your good players. These aren't just bad moves, they're idiotic.

Pretty much my sentiments. I just want to see a professional, competent ..team. Although I care less about the win, because once the 2nd half gets there, the score is pretty much irrelevant. However, they should all look prepared, focused, and competent. I just want to finally say... The Bills are able to field a real NFL team.

Thank you! I'm trying... and you do make many good points. Maybe by September, I'll work my way back into the hopeful phase. Lol. But your last sentiment is really all I've hoped for the last couple seasons. Yeah, we all want playoffs and more...but at this point we need an organization that can just consistently field a good, hard hitting team each week. Then actually win more games than they lose each year. That's how far this franchise has fallen. More often than not, they don't even look like a professional football team, let alone actually win games they should.

I was thinking of starting a thread similar to this yesterday. My brother-in-law and I always talk football and yesterday he's asking me... How's the Bills looking? What's their big moves? (He's a Broncos fan). Sadly, my answer was... I don't know. Does any of it matter? We started talking more about how football is getting unwatchable lately, and for me, how much these last 17 years have weighed upon my eternal hope. He used to joke... 10yrs ago.. How do you guys do it? Every year think the Bills are going to the playoffs and every year they suck. And sadly... I can't get excited by the offseason hope any more. Will they suck? Will they be good? I don't know. However, I've seen this team go through coaching changes, player changes, owners, entire front offices, GMs, fans born, fans died. But, one thing remains constant... The mediocrity that is this team. We haven't had decent coaching in forever. We haven't had true impact players since the late 90's. We've fielded more unfocused, poorly prepared, ..soft.. teams than I care to recount. Last year I didn't get Sunday ticket and don't feel I missed much.. .even when they won. This year, for the 2nd season ever, I won't try to watch every game. I just can't get excited any more. They've beaten me down. So, if I may ask a different question? For those of you excited, optimistic... How can I be that way again? Not for the game day experience... I live in ID and spend most every week on the road somewhere else. I've never had the joy of attending a game at Rich Stadium, and don't know that I ever will. Why should I... How can I ..get excited about a team that has changed everything, yet again, in hopes that this is finally the right combination? Why should we even watch the NFL at all when the one team I hate the most is the only team that ever seems to win and is showing no signs of stopping?

It's ..all of the above... They have good players, smart players, coaches, game plans, they definitely get favoritism by the refs, but they also, bend the rules, out and out cheat, steal play books, and just about anything else you wanna mention. Sure Brady is great.. But Cassel took the same team to 11-5. Last year, they started 3–1 without him. Its not all about Brady. Its about a system of designing game plans, bending the rules of the game and insisting that players follow exactly what they're coached to do, all while the league looks the other way at any misgivings. That's why I hate that team and the league more and more. Not because they always win.. But because of how they always win and the rest of the league just takes it.

You don't need the benefit of hindsight to see that they have been one of, if not the most, dominant teams in sports history. They're a perrenial double digit win team, winning the division is practically a given, the only real question is are they the number 1 or number 2 seed every year. The only thing left for historians to figure out will be how much of that success was due to cheating? And how much was do to their ability? The Bills, in any other division, unfortunately are still just the Bills. They've been horribly inconsistent for nearly 20 years. We can't even beat the Jets and Fins with regularity. Yeah, we have 2 automatic losses on our schedule due to the cheating team, but that doesn't explain why we can't field a consistent team that plays well against everyone else. So, if the Bill played in the NFC North, I'd predict a few other teams.. Vikings and Lions perhaps, would have a better record and make the playoffs more frequently. Until this franchise figures out how to field a professional football team.. .we're stuck in mediocrity regardless of the opponent.

I'm unsure about the offseason so far..and the state of the franchise. I was glad to see Rex gone. He needed to go before he was hired. Then McDermott comes in and hires what appears to be a solid coaching stafff. Things look good. Then we have, by all accounts, a great draft. Things are looking better. Now, we're cleaning out the FO. It's like a roller coaster. I'll add just a couple of thoughts. First, when or why Whaley got canned is a little irrelevant. I've seen the argument for keeping your GM till after the draft, and quite honestly, it makes a ton of good sense. But, do I have confidence the Pegulas can hire a competent replacement? No. They've yet to earn that confidence from us fans. Yes, I believe they'll certainly try. But, can anyone honestly say they have confidence in their sports teams hires? Same with McDermott. I want to like him. You certainly hear nothing but good things. But, until we see the team he puts on the field in September, we really don't know how its going to go with him. So, right now, I guess I just have no confidence in anything the organization is doing. It's all a complete unknown. Secondly, everyone agrees we needed a culture change. When losing runs as deep as it does in this franchise, you can only do it one way.... Replace everyone. In the sports world you're judged by the win/loss record. And there's not a single person associated with this franchise over the last decade(s) that can say they've passed that test. So, I'm not upset about Whaley or anyone on this team or associated with this team being shown the door. But, like I said before, the new people have to earn their right to stay, based on the production on the field. And finally, it's going to take time to build a solid, consistent winner. Football isn't like any of the other sports, it takes a full team, no single superstar can do it all. So, for better or worse, I'm fully on board for giving McD and the new FO 5yrs to get this team headed in the right direction. With all that said, there's one very clear way to build a consistent winner... Get a damn QB. If Tryod isn't that guy or even if you're still not completely sure. Trade the entire draft and Dareus to get the #1 spot next year and get the consesnus best QB. Don't be smart, don't be cute, just get a true franchise QB. If they don't McDermott's tenure here will end like all the others. I guess in a year or two we'll know exactly where this franchise is headed. Until then, there's little any of us can do but.. Hope. Hang in there, it can't get worse. We truly have no where to go but up. I just don't know if we're going to play around in the muck and the mire for a few more years or if they've started working on that ladder with the moves over the last couple months.

I'm a huge proponent of drafting a QB every year, till you find ..the.. guy. But, with that said, there's almost zero chance that a rookie is going to outplay Tyrod. Opening up a competition for the starting QB spot, would just set this team back further. Draft a guy and let him develop.

It affects all posters here if someone posts content that gets the board shut down because of copyright infringement. It's really pretty simple... 1. Post a link to the full article. 2. Say something fun like... This is a good article! I like it. 3. If you really want to be a go getter... Put a few quotes or partial paragraph in quotes from the article to make us all think, wow I like that. I should go read that good article and then post my thoughts about it back here. Follow those 3 simple steps and no one on some random website thinks we're stealing their content, the board here hums along in harmony, cats and dogs play together, the world is a brighter place.

That made me laugh. I'm not sure what that guy did to you, but I can appreciate your passion! Its weird how you can get attached to a message board. I don't know if it's nostalgia for an internet era bye gone or something more meaningful. But, there really is something about a community like this. I could never thank you enough for keeping this site and all the good Bills' conversation going for so many years through so much bad football. All I know is that there's only one website I check everyday. The Bills and this message board, in particular, have gottten me through some very difficult times in my life. And if this site ever just vanished without warning... Well, I'd be lost! Thank you for all you do.

Who's collecting all the wine from these new guys?

I have to disagree about many of our problems being on the players. It's the coaches job to inspire and instill a certain attitidue and toughness in the players. The X's and O's of where to line up and who are you covering is one thing, but as Billick said players have to be willing to sacrifice and buy in to thier roles. That's what the really good coaches do. They get the players to buy in and instill that attitude, before the wins stack up and give evidence that it's all working. All these players know how to tackle. They've been doing it their whole life. So all of a sudden they forget? They stop trying? Or caring? Why is that? It comes back to coaching. Same with Gilmore ans Darby. They were 2 of the best CBs in the league one year, the next... They can't cover? What changed? Is it they suddenly forgot what they were doing? Or is it the mentality and attitidue of the coaching staff that led them to either be confused or complacent? Rex and his coaching staff installed a lackluster, easy going attitude. Then they piled on an overly complex and misguided system. It's easy to see why it failed. And some people knew it was going to happen from the day he was hired, because that's where his teams had been trending for years.