Dan

Are these offenses THIS good or are these defenses THAt bad?

In Fanatasy Land. The reality of wins and loses doesn't matter. It's all about what happens in my own little made up world.

Again, I agree with much of what you say. It seems JP has alot going against him and not the least of which is the coaching. They're telling him not to run and stay in the pocket. Then the pocket collapses and he gets sacked. They call plays that are questionable, at best. Add that to the piss poor line and receivers not doing their part and you've got a recipe for sucky play. Where we differ is I say leave JP in, period. The only way I say pull him for Nall is if we have a game where everything is clicking and JP is clearly not doing anything. I haven't seen that yet. Every game there's plenty of bad, but there's also a little good - by the entire offense. I'm not sure of the fix, but it would be nice to see an offense show some sort of consistency.

... and he was going against one of the better pass rushers this season. It was a huge test for a rookie. I'd say he has a long way to go, but it wasn't a total wash.

I do agree with so much of your post. I just think it's funny how some people give JP zero credit for anything. He's definitely experiencing growing pains and we can argue for ever about whether his growing pains are better, worse, the same as other QBs. However, I think any reasonable person can say a few things: JP is young and inexperienced; he doesn't see the field like a 5 year vet; he's going to struggle learning a new offense with young players and a questionable line. So, when he struggles we should accept it rather than continually look for another rookie with no experience that might do better on 1 or 2 plays. Most people want to see JP progress. I would argue that his play today showed some flashes of progression. He didn't turn the ball over. He did make a play when he absolutely had to. He moved in the pocket to avoid a hit on more than one play. He hit a few guys on nice plays (but they dropped them). He hit Shelton(?) on the pass out of the backfield in stride. So, he did di some good things, that he's struggled with in the past. He did have troubles. I agree. But, given the offensive line shake up and his inexperience, I'd say that was to be expected. He does need to progress. But, let's give him credit where credit is due. He's done some things that look like a real NFL QB, a fact that some here refuse to acknowledge.

Yep that sums it up. The only thing JP can do that will make many of these idiots happy is sell his house and leave town. Then they'll get another QB to rag on and call out for not catching his own passes after he blocks the blitzing db.

The most important thing today was JP and the offense came through when they had to. How many times had they had the game and only had to get a first down and couldn't. Or needed a score to seal the game and couldn't. Today the game was tied, the Packers had the momentum and we needed something. That's exactly when JP through the TD pass. That's what we've been missing. Similarly, on the defensive side: how many games have they done exactly what they did today; only to give up that game tieing score. Rather today they got the interception and long return. The most surprising thing today.... they did what they had to.. WHEN they had to. That fact should not be understated.

I was screaming for a penalty there. Why wasn't there one?

I'd say they passed, but not by much. Still alot of sacks and pressures and very few passing lanes. But, I agree; no blindside hits and 100yds rushing are definitely positives. All in all, I'd say the experiment is working after one week.

I'm not sure most people said he was terrible, just that he didn't deserve the huge paycheck he wanted. I was one of those. However, if they keep him moving and he plays like this for the rest of the season, I'll completely change my mind. He had a great game and was definitely one of the key reasons we won the game. Although, on the negative, he did give a big cushion an awful lot.

You play during the season to win; not to get a draft pick. It's so tiring to hear people complaining when we win, because now we won't get a good draft spot.

Actually, I think its a good thing. If we all know this is a non-playoff year, why not do everything possible to develop your players for the future? Same thing with the O-line. The moves today were risky and looked pretty bad at times, but for the future of the team it was great. I think it's apparent JP is in for the season no matter what. The coaches are definitely seeing something that alot of fans aren't. I just hope it pans out and doesn't backfire on the team.

I must admit. Clements had a good game today. Did anyone else also notice they moved the corners around today rather than letting Driver continually line up against out weakest DB?

Exactly. My first thought was what a lucky pass. THEN I saw the replay. Standing in there and making that throw was huge. And at a critical time in the game when we absolutely needed something. I don't think one play excuses the whole day. But, you've got to give JP credit for a big pass a critical time.

No way it was a 15 yarder. His head hardly moved and didn't even attempt to bring him down with it. The skins definitely got a gift there.

I love it. JP played bad, the O-line played bad, the receivers dropped balls, Willis leaves in first series. Conclusion: JP sucks bench him. JP finally does something. Stands in till the last possible second with a defender right in his face and throws a 40 yard pass without being able to step into it. Touchdown. JP still sucks, anyone could have made that pass. Beautiful. Talk about not being able to do anything right.

He went down early in the game with a bruised back/ribs. They really haven't said much. Other offensive note, not being mentioned... Royals and Evans dropped easy passes that would have made the offense look alot better.

I was wondering the same thing this morning. Cards? WTF.

Upon contemplation, I'd have to agree.

If this position-shift works, why would we still need to address the lines? Perhaps for depth? It seems to me that if this O-line shuffle works then the line would become less of a concern.

My initial thought as well. In this game I'm actually more worried about our Defensive line and our ability to stop the run. The Packers seem to be relying on that lately, so I doubt they'll give up on it, unless we can make them. Something we haven't done yet.

That would explain why the Bills always seemed to be mentioned. I had wondered about that. The Bills get almost no mention in national media, and I'm not saying they should; I'm just saying. TMQ, however, seems to have a Bills reference each week, even on their bye week. hooo ray TMQ!

See my post above... I've seen several games at Fenway. None were against the Yankees and all I witnessed multiple fights.

Living in RI for 7 years I went to several events at Foxboro and Fenway. I've always considered those some of the roughest crowds ever. Never once was there not mutlple fights for one stupid reason or another. Even for concerts. By far the worst crowds I've seen at games or concerts. For reference, I've seen games (of various kinds) in Chicago, Baltimore, Nashville, New Orleans, Memphis, St. Louis. Granted not alot of games. And, unfortunately, no games at Rich Stadium. (perhaps someday) All this however, still doesn't excuse the fact that this behavior is wrong and is too often accepted. Half the posts here, still say "they got what they deserved" or something to that effect. I find that disheartening. All I can say is next time we want to talk about "classless" fans in Miami or NE or anywhere else, I suggest a long look in the mirror to make sure we're not talking about ourselves as well.

Excellent perspective! My early memories of Kelly (understand I have a hard time remembering what I had for breakfast yesterday) were cursing him relentlessly for all the ill-timed interceptions. It was years before my Mom liked him. I don't think my Grandmother ever did. I also very much remember almost every time he threw the ball, even during the Superbowl years, holding my breath thinking it would be intercepted. And we all know how Kelly's career turned out. So, what am I trying to say? Just that first impressions aren't always the best impressions. Sometimes you just have to give people (and in this case teams) a little time. The real question is how much time do you give? I'd suggest the "standard" for assessing a GM is roughly 3 years. So, Levy gets about 3yrs in my book before I start wanting change. JP and many of the other players get about the same amount of time - unless they show absolutely nothing. But, keep in mind regarding players, much of what they show, we as fans cannot see. Their leadership, their team chemistry, their desire are just a few. So, we really have ot rely on the coaches more for player assesments.