Dan

Point well made. Yes, I admit I was seduced. Hence my bitterness today. I really went into this season thinking this would be exactly the type of team we'd see. But, I allowed myself to get hopeful again. I have seen progress in many areas, but damn it gets frustrating when you know we should be able to beat a team like Detroit. It's tough being a Bills fan sometimes.

Good Point.

I know.... I'm being ridiculous. But, I've given up trying to argue what we obviously won't agree on.

You obviously have never played the game or never seen one in person, because Nate tips the balls in purpose. He's so good, he figures he's tired of catching all the interceptions. So, he's tryin to help the other guys out. Its not his fault they're not as good as he is.

You're right. Nate is by far the best player on our team and easily the best cornerback in the league. The only question is will Marv be awake enough to pay him the $7-$8 mill/yr he wants for the priviledge of letting us see Nate school the league's best receivers. I'm not sure how I could ever think Nate was average. He clearly is so good, opposing teams shudder in fear of even getting near his side of the field.

Sure it is, but I really don't have time (or the inclination) to watch the game and count it all up. But, I'm sure its a greater majority than times when there's a true pocket for him.

What pocket are we talkin about? I can hardly recall a pocket. JP drops back and has 2 choices - immediately throw or run. He has about 2 seconds to make that decision before someone is on him. This is pretty much 90% of our pas attempts.

Actually, McGehee was the 4th leading rusher (I think). But, perhaps its because he's good (which I know many refuse to believe). Also, perhaps its because several of the top rushers have had their buys; hence, they've played one less game. Also, perhaps our line is better at run blocking than pass blocking. Which begs the question, why all the 5 step drops today? Regardless, our line is pretty bad. I know it. Everyone with 2 eyes knows it.

Generally, I'd agree with you. But, I don't think you have to be a rocket scientist to see that our OLine is pretty lousy on a consistent basis.

To put this loss and much of our poor play these last two weeks on Losman is the very definition of "not seeing the forest for the trees".

Its funny how every week we play the best "insert position" in the league right now.

I think you could argue that all of those guys have a far better team surrounding them. Do you really think any of those guys would have us in the playoffs by themselves?

By my count, he was thrown to 5 times and gave up 3 passes (but, for the sake of arguement I'll say he gave up 2). So, that's 50%. Now why is he worth top 5 money? I've never said he wasn't an adequate corner, I'm just saying he's not the best in the league and therefore shouldn't be paid as such. And I agree, Champ does give up a few passes, but he seems to atone with a key interception, as well. Where's Nate's interceptions?

Exactly what I was thinking watching the game - I'm tired of this crap. Why does it seem like every other team out there can throw a quick slant or a screen? But, we can never do that. JP played pretty well when given the chance, but way too many 5 and 7 step drops for this line. They have to realize this line can't hold the ruch long enough for any QB to drop back 7 steps then set and scan the field. On the one decent drive, it was all 3 step drops.

I saw that game - consider yourself lucky. It wasn't as close as the score looked. We were pretty well outplayed in every aspect. The OLine was particulary miserable. Throw in some questionable play calls, a completely lousy defensive effort, and a few bad ref calls; and you have a miserable game.

Exactly, unitl the line improves such that there's a consisten pocket, you cannot lay the inept offense at JPs feet. He's definitely shown flashes and should be allowed to develop. Hopefully, we get a decent line in fron of him sooner or later.

Looked like a catch to me. Both arms were under the ball. And the ball didn't move so much as his arms moved when he rolled.

I posted what happened, not what I thought would fool, nor did I try to "interpret" what was happening. But, lets for a moment: On the first catch, yes, Williams pushed; but because Clements bit on the fake, he was out of position and therefore rather than a push all it really took was a slight nudge to "throw" him 10 yds off the play. 4th series 3-4 R. Williams run past Clements. Completion 18 yds. Zone or not, Williams ran right past him, Clements turned to pursue and the catch was made with Clements the only Bill within the area of the pass. Call it what you want, but he gave up a pass there. 10th Series 1-10 R. Williams catch for 18 yds in front of Clements. Williams runs and cuts in front of Clements - catches the ball. How is that not a catch against Clements? Look, Clements clearly gave up more than 1 pass. He also, didn't single handedly give the game away either. All I'm saying is that this guy wants $7mil/yr and he's not palying like a shut down corner and getting interceptions. So, why pay him like he is? If he wants to stay for a reasonable salary, I'm all for it. But, why spend top money for an average CB when we need to spend it on the lines.

I'd place a hefty amount of blame on the Defensive line as well. The continue to make average running backs look like MVPs.

Exactly! The whole teams needs to play with more consistency. They're all blowing assignments all the time. With this O Line, its almost a given that on 3rd down there's pressure. If I were JP, I'd just go back and start running on 3rd down, because there is no pocket to be aware of.

OK. just fast forwarded through the game. And giving up one pass is a bit of a stretch. I counted 2 tackles (one after the first down) and 2 passes defensed (however, technically, he didn't break either one up) and 3 passes against. Certainly, McGee got worked over quite a bit more. But, for a playmaker, where's all of Clements great plays? In general, the Lions just took it to our Defense. And, Clements did little to help. Add that to the poor run defense and continual burn of McGee and the Lions are headed to the playoffs. 1st Q: 1st series 2-7. Clements bites on pump fake. 20 yd completion to R. Williams. 2nd Q: 4th series 3-4 R. Williams run past Clements. Completion 18 yds. 1-10 R. Williams runs past him again. Dropped pass at 10yd line. 5th Series 1-10 R. Williams catch for 8 yds. Clements too far off in coverage. 3rd Q: 9th Series 1-10 Clements makes a tackle, coming off his guy. 4th Q: 9th Series 2-7 Clements makes tackle after first down. 10th Series 1-10 R. Williams catch for 18 yds in front of Clements. 1-10 Clements covering R. Williams. KO intercepts it at the 3.

Solution: Start someone else. Anyone else. It can't get worse. Hell, change the scheme while you're at it. Whatever they're doing, its not working. We just made the Lions look like a playoff team.

Seriously, how can you say you watched the last 2 games and conclude that Clements is a top 5 cornerback? He doesn't get beat long, because he's always playing too deep allowing the receivers to catch the ball in front of him. How many first down catches has he given up because he's too deep? Mix that in with those several missed tackes a game and it adds up to average corner play - at best. I'm not saying he's the only reason this defense sucks; but he's clearly not doing anything to help it out. He's adequate and for that, I'd say keep him on the team only for a significant pay cut. If another team wants to pay him $7-8 million, let them. Because he's not earned that for us in over a year now.

How anyone can defend Clements (or anyone in our secondary) after this dismal performance is beyond me. Clements sucked last year, he's sucking this year. Like so many have said, how much worse can we be without him? We can't cover or tackle anyone now - with him. I say get him gone.

Git 'er done Marv.