Dan

Well, I'll certainly admit to wearing beer (or Bills) goggles. I can't help it. Regarding the salaries... name one player the FO didn't sign because of money restrictions (minus Nate, perhaps). Despite all the talk of cash 2 cap, they seem to get who they go after. Granted, we can argue about who they're going after, but lack of money doesn't appear to be a deal beaker in any of their discussions. Dockery, for all I remember, was one of the top 3 FA Guards that year. It was debatable what their order was (although few would argue he was the #1 FA). If the Bills hadn't' paid him top dollar, almost certainly someone else would have. I, agree, the Bills probably overpaid for him. But, not many players are coming to Buffalo at a discount. Like it or not, we're not the Pats*. They can name a price and often a lower price and players will go because they know they're playing for a Super Bowl contender. So the Bills almost certainly have to over pay a little. The problem I have with so many of the knocks on Kelsay is that he gets zero credit for the good plays he makes. Is he the best DE? Is he above average? No. But, is he solid? Yes. He makes just about as many good plays as bad, IMO. But, of course, this ship has sailed. Too many people have decided he sucks ass and will never acknowledge when he has a good play or game. I'll agree completely with the McCargo paragraph. I would have much rather had Mangold that year. But, like I said, the FO isn't perfect. Poz, I disagree with. He seems to be the player they wanted and needed. Why not get him? I just don't buy into all this draft talk of value and such. You do realize Poz has almost twice the number of tackles as Harris this year, right? What makes shim so much better? I, too, agree the team is better off now. Although, I'm not ready to sau its because of Trent. If anything, he's regressed and still has a lot to prove. I's say we're better off because we're full of young talent that's steadily improving at almost every critical position - QB, RB, LT, WR, LB, DB. Are there still problems? Yes. But, what gives me confidence is that each offseason the FO has addressed the team's needs. We needed Oline help - they signed FAs. We needed Dline help - the signed Stroud. We needed LB - they got Poz, now Mitchell. We needed a RB - Lynch. And so on. I rarely saw that with TD.

Due to the discussion in another thread, I'm curious what people think. Despite the 6-6 record this year, are the Bills, as a team, better off now than they were 3 years ago? In short, have they progressed.

My point, sorry if I didn't make it clear enough, was that most people wanted MM gone. Whether he quit or was fired is largely immaterial, in my mind. Perhaps for us fans it's seen as a sackless move. But, I'd wager that in the professional world it allowed him to save face leaving on his own terms. And how's that working so far? He's eventually made his way back to being a decent OC. I still contend that this is the minority opinion. For better or worse, I'm on this board daily (have been for years). Granted I think I've posted less in the last few weeks. I think a poll is in order. Sorry, but if this is what you read in my response; then we're just not communicating properly. That's about all I can say about that.

The problem with #1-4 is that none of those deals have prevented the team from signing other players. They may be bad moves in that the players themselves suck, but that should be separated from their salaries. Giving Price $2mill/yr is next to nothing and in no way hurt the team financially. Not to mention, he was critical to our offense at the time. Perhaps you wanted a different player, but that's a different arguement. The same can be said for Kelsay and Schobel. Both are good DEs. Are they worth their salaries? That's another question and largely irrelevant considering the Bills are no where near the cap limit. I've mentioned this in other posts, but if you dislike the players - fine. But, show some better players that the Bills could have brought in to replace them. Forget the salaries. Ralph has shown he's willing to play for players. Similarly for the offensive line. We all hear the tired line that the FO has neglected the Oline. That's complete fallacy and myth. They've spent incrdibly on the Oline over the last few years. Yes, you and others dislike their signings. But to simply suggest that Hutchinson would have been better, simply ignores the dynamics that are involved with FA acquisitions. Maybe they went after him, but he turned them down ala that TE from KC? Is it the FO's fault that Gonzalez wasn't signed this season? No. They offered exactly what his agent wanted. But, the player voided the deal. Can you be so certain that no other FAs have done the same thing? I can't. So were better guards than Dockery available? Perhaps. Did Marv et al. do what it takes to get one of the best into Buffalo? Yes. Same with Stroud this season. Funny how no one mentions that as a good move by the FO. Regarding Poz... are you calling him a bust after starting 15 games in his career? Lets be clear. The Bills needed a MLB, they got arguably the 2nd best one in the draft. They couldn't have drafted Willis if they wanted, he was gone. So to argue all the trade ups and downs and what not is a lessen in futility. No one knows if he would have been available had they waited. McCargo appears to be a bust. I agree. No one said the FO was perfect. Similarly the situation with Clements could have been handled differently. However, we don't know the details of all the discussions. So it's hard to understand the motives behind Marv's decision. But, ok lets go with it. That's 2 mistakes. Hardly enough to say the negatives are far out weighing the positives (Edwards, Lynch, Poz, Jackson, Stroud, Whitner, Williams, Mitchell to name a few). I'm not going to say the FO has done a perfect job. But, I will contend that the team is in much better shape than it was 3 years ago. Most people, such as yourself, use anything possible to point out the negative, but readily forget all the positive that's occurred - all the while ignoring pertinent facts to help sway your cause for dislike of the FO. Not everything they've done is great, but certainly it's not all nearly as bad as you suggest.

Some good points. But, the question is... why are we 6-6, this year? Are we really truly worse off or are we just struggling due to some young players and coaches. I think we can place the blame in many places this season. But, we can certainly attribute several losses to the poor play of our young QB, bad head coaching, poor play calling by a rookie OC, and defensive lapses. Does that make us a bad team, worse off than we were 5 years ago or are we a just young team struggling to find our identity? Perhaps interesting to see a new thread with that as an initial poll.

Agree? I think not. We all know full well the earth isn't due to explode for another 4 years and 2 weeks (give or take a few hours). Most were critical of MM quitting? That implies a majority. As I recall, the majority were upset he wasn't fired and breathed a huge sigh of relief when he quit. I think the team and fanbase had had enough of MM and the way he lost the team. Maybe I'm wrong in my recollection, but I need to see some sort of evidence that the majority of people wanted MM to stay on and continue coaching the Bills. Furthermore, there may be a sense by some that this team is not on the rise, but certainly not by all. TD had 5 years to do something. It was very apparent after 5 years that the team was not moving forward, but was in fact declining. I don't recall anyone, anyone, that wanted him around any longer. Nor do I know of anyone that thinks, 3 years later, that maybe we should have stayed with him. Please, point out those opinions. Jauron may not be the coach to get us to the playoffs and may very well be fired at the end of the year, but there's little doubt that the team needed a new direction 3 years ago. Perhaps you, and a few others, don't like the direction the team has taken. But, I'd contend that although not all decisions by the FO have been good, some certainly have. To imply that Marv set up a dysfunctional FO and undermined the team's chance for success is something we'll never agree on.

Glad you agree.

Exactly. So it's highly likely that Marv wanted to replace Mularkey, but Ralph wouldn't let him fire him. So, Marv decided upon plan B - put him in a situation that he knows Mularkey doesn't (or won't) like; therefore, he quits. Of course, Marv isn't going to talk bad about him publicly; he'd say nothing but good things because Marv's a class guy. I'm not saying this did happen. I'm just suggesting its a possibility.

I didn't mean to imply that he told Mularkey exactly how to do his job. However, it's entirely possible that he came in and said we're going to cut alot of these guys and draft young guys that have more upside; and we'd like to install a different defense. That's not an egomaniac, that's just coming in and changing things up. I also never called Levy a liar. I simply said he may have allowed Mularkey to save face. It's called tact. No need to call a guy out, blame the team's failure on him, then fire him.

See, there's the beauty of being a fan. We don't really know what happened nor what was discussed. Perhaps Marv talked Mularkey and said we'd like you to stay on while we blow up the whole team, draft new players and install new these schemes. To which, he said thanks, but no thanks. Of course, there's also the possibility that Marv, in an effort to allow Mularkey to save some face and said you can resign or be fired - your choice. Being the respectable guy Marv is, he talked very highly of Mularkey publicly - oh he's great, we want him to stay, yada yada - but in reality they were moving on behind the scenes.

No doubt. This is what.. his 5th or 6th "career" game?

Excellent!

Maybe that would make him a natural fit for Shotgun Turk's offense?

A few years ago, no bonuses was announced prior to the year end party. A good friend of mine was pissed and decided that year he was going to "drink his bonus". After several nice bottles of wine, a bottle of some really expensive scotch (bought specifically for the company president), and multiple shots of whatever he could get his hands on; we all agreed he had. Needless to say the next day we literally thought he was dead. It really wasn't a great idea, but man we got some great stories from that night. Amazingly, he didn't get fired.

It's because TD's boy, JP, is starting.

Agreed. It would be a good problem to have. Typically, I think you go with the hot hand. So, I can see your point about it depending upon how we win - because of JP or because of the defense. Of course, some people think the QB's play somehow effects the defense's play; but lets not worry about that till the post game. It will be interesting to see Jauron squirm with the answer, though. I really hope JP proves everyone wrong and earns Offensive Player of the week Honors.

Here's to you.

Wonder if anyone in Tennessee would disagree with that?

But there's the question.... if JP wins this Sunday, should he/does he start against the Jets?

No biggie. You know it's gotten bad when we're all talkin Flutie again.

That is my single biggest concern with replacing Jauron. There's no guarantee that they'll bring in anyone worth a dang to replace him. It can get worse... a lot worse.

I don't like it. Not nearly miserable enough. I say we win the next three to be 9-6. All we have to do is beat NE* and have Baltimore lose and we're the #6 seed. They flex our game to the late game. We all watch the Jags beat Baltimore. Our guys take the field only needing to beat NE* at home. We start good, but blow it in the 3rd quarter. The Pats* finally seal the game with an 80 yard TD screen pass to some scrub in the 4th quarter after Jauron punts from our 40 yard line on 4and2 (Moorman puts it in the endzone). During the offseason Jauron's extension is announced as you described.

Sorry what 2 years did he do that? I know he led us to the playoffs in '98 and lost in the wildcard game. But, he didn't start that season as the Bills' starter. He game in mid season for Johnson, as I recall. 1999 was the first time he started the season as a starter and got his team to the playoffs and should have started in the playoffs (IMO). I recalled a quote at the time where he said that was his dream come true, that 99 season - that's what I was referring to (however, I could be wrong my memory has been known to suck). What other season did he take a team to the playoffs?

Not to mention he got us to the playoffs. I agree, I never got it either. The guy played his ass off to get us into the playoffs, does that, realizes his dream of playing for an NFL team in the playoffs is at hand - then gets benched and we lose. And we want to blame him for being pissed. Imagine that. I liked Flutie, still do. But, then again, I tend to cheer for whoever the Bills put on the field. I'm a homer like that. Of course, some people just like to B word.

True. Trent may be hurt, but is he hurt so much that he can't start? Yeah this is just me wasting thoughts, but it'll get more intriguing if JP somehow manages to play well in a Bills win this weekend. Too bad he didn't want to stay.