Kirby Jackson

Really well said. Until teams, specifically the Saints, started manipulating the cap, teams were on pretty level ground. Now the ownership gap is presenting a massive gap in teams ability to spend. If the Philly ownership owned the Bengals there would be no question that Hendrickson, Higgins, Chase, etc.. would be back. If the Bengals ownership owned the Eagles, there’s no way that they’d be Super Bowl Champs.

So if I’m understanding this correctly, you had no issue with him wanting more money 3 weeks ago. In fact, you supported it and he was a valued member of the team. Now that he has gone public with his demand he’s not the kind of person that we want on the team? Do I have that right? If so, we strongly disagree. I don’t care about how he asked for his money. I care that he shows up vs. KC. To each their own…

That list is fair. Stroud, Stafford and Love would all be behind him for me at this point (that wasn’t always the case). Hurts is a gamer and Daniels looks like the next guy to move towards that top 4 group.

I think you’re right here. I do suspect that the Bills will be “in” on him though. It’s just a matter of whether or not they can strike a deal. If not, he will hit FA (if they don’t take him) and another team will make a bigger offer.

True, my assumption (and goal) would be to trade Groot as a part of the package for one of them. If they don’t land either of them, try to sign Mack in FA and let Groot play out his 5th year option. I would not pay him this offseason regardless. If he blows up this season than his price goes up but it will also be easier to pay him $20+M if he’s a 14 sack guy.

It’s not more than his market if someone will pay it. Lol, Shaq’s business empire was an example. Substitute Magic Johnson’s name in there if you must. The point wasn’t “he wants to be Shaq.” I have no idea what his aspirations are or how much money is “enough” for him. That’s none of my business. We, as fans, significantly overestimate the importance of a title to athletes. Do they care about it? Absolutely!! If you polled all professional athletes anonymously and said, “who you rather sign a 4 year $40M deal and win a Super Bowl or a 4 year $60M deal and play on a bad team” the overwhelming majority would take the $60M. The championship has value to them but not $5M a year worth of value. This is the truth. If the fans stop supporting the league and revenues drop, the prices going to players will drop. Those things are tied directly together.

I’m not sure you’re following. Enough is different for everyone and the market decides when it will not meet someone’s demands. I don’t know if Tremaine Edmunds is happy. I don’t know him. I can speak for myself only. Statistically, I do well compared to most Americans. I’m also significantly underpaid for the value that I provide. Both of those are true. I don’t look at it as “you should be happy that you can provide a nice life.” I look at it as, “I’m worth so much more than I make and should get that while I can.” I’m currently in the marketplace now and have offers for significantly more money and equity. Should I just be happy with what I’m making? It’s the same thing!! There’a NEVER a time where there isn’t more money to spend. Maybe his dream is to build a business empire like Shaq? Maybe he wants to buy an island? Whatever, it is, who cares? It isn’t up to anyone else to decide when someone has had enough. When the demand is no longer there for him, or anyone else, at a particular price, the market stops paying it. Lol, seriously

He has a contract and leverage. When you are overpaid in the NFL, they rip your contract up and don’t pay you. Are we okay with that? The leverage you have is when you’re a good value and can hold out. Cook is up for a raise and a significant one. Now he’s pushing the Bills to get something done. Why anyone gets upset about what he wants? That concept is beyond me. We make what our market and skill set warrants. I also don’t understand how him wanting market value makes him of lesser value to the team? He was the best player on the field for the Bills last game and I’m sure he wanted $15M at that point. You didn’t know about it then. So now that you know that he isn’t the kind of guy that you want? Help me understand that? My concern is winning and he has been an important piece.

That isn’t an argument. Players are compensated a percentage of the league’s revenue. If the money that the league makes grows, the money that the players make grows. Who should decide when “enough is enough?” That’s not a thing. The players and owners have collectively bargained to share in the riches of the league. This isn’t about what would be enough for you. It’s also not your place to ever tell anyone else what they should make and when they have enough. That’s not how it works. Lol, no one is asking what you’d be happy making. If you want to make $5M and win a Super Bowl than be good enough to get an NFL contender to pay you that. If not, it’s irrelevant to this and every subsequent conversation regarding contracts.

Should he NOT care about the money at his job? Is it “selfish” when I go ask for more money because I’m being paid below the market rate? What does what you make have to do with what he makes? Are you an NFL player? If not, NFL players are paid a percentage of the money that the league makes. If you don’t like how much they make, stop consuming the product driving up the money to the players. Define “more than enough to have a nice life?” Why is that okay for someone else to decide?

He’s MILES ahead of Lawrence in my mind (especially this past year). I think Herbert has an argument as the 5th best QB (definitely top 10). Lawrence is closer to 20 for me.

If we are saying “be done with him” that’s one thing. The part that I’m struggling with is the people that are okay at $12M but not $15M. That’s not much different at all in what it allows the Bills to do. If you’re advocating “trade him for a 3rd and draft Judkins” there, that’s a different conversation. He’s a low mileage RB that appears to be improving. He split the backfield in college and in the NFL. That’s different than drafting a guy with a lot of miles. I haven’t looked at it but I wonder what it would look like if you took all of Davis’ touches in college and the pros and compared it to Cook’s touches in college and the pros what it would look like? I suspect it would be close. I don’t have the energy to look it up. Update: Cook has 1,047 touches in college & the pros including playoffs. Ray Davis has 977 touches. These are just scrimmage touches. They are 6 weeks apart in age. So Cook is 6 weeks older and has 70 more touches. The perception is “one is a rising rookie” and the other “primed for a decline.” They’re basically the same in terms of experience.

I think that’s fair if we are talking about plugging in a rookie in his place. The Bills scored a lot of points with a great running game. I’m not sure that they want to take a step back there to take a step forward elsewhere. I think that it’s reasonable to do both if you structure contracts aggressively.

He has been great in the biggest games. Could they get someone better? Maybe. Is it more likely that who they’d replace him with would be worse? Definitely. That gamble is absolutely not worth it when we are talking about a few million bucks a year (not even a few million dollars difference in cap hit).

This is what I’m struggling with. Why does it get much more difficult? Using this framework I don’t see this as a problem: Will he be a little overpaid? Probably. Why should I care is what I can’t wrap my head around? I care about the cap situation not actual dollars. That’s a Terry issue. Why does anyone care if he makes $12M vs. $15M? Those cap challenges will be years from now. When the window is open throw caution to the wind and be thankful that you’ve had an owner willing to pay up.

Yeah, I’m referring to this offseason as the “likeliest levers pulled.” That would be a new deal for Josh obviously, Von gone, and a few other moves. I don’t remember the specifics and don’t have the cap page in front of me. I actually think it was from Greg Tompsett’s prediction as to what they do.

The Steelers culture and Jags culture are basically opposite. I’ve never been a Lawrence guy dating back to college. He never looked like the generational guy that he was made out to be. Lol, it’s one of the rare times that I feel vindicated for a bold opinion. With that being said, I’ve probably been a little harder on him than most calling him, “the most overrated player in football.” 🤣🤣 If he got to Pittsburgh though, I’d expect him to become a quality QB.

I think @BarleyNY’s point is that if Mike Brown decided to operate as Gayle Benson has, it’s possible. It just means that they pay a lot up front and eat the cap hits years from now. Mike Brown hasn’t been that guy in the past. That’s why ownership is so important in the NFL. You can pretty much make whatever you want work with the cap. It’s just a matter of you’re willing to pay the cash.

I think most guesses that I’ve seen have them at around $40M in cap space.

With him asking for $15M, I’d expect like $13M being where it ends up. Where I’m at, is that if it’s $12M or $13M or $15M what difference does it make to anyone other than Terry scratching the check? If you can control the cap hit as the Spotrac post suggested, why do I care what he gets?

I’m assuming that Garrett or Crosby or Mack starts in that spot. You fill the gaps behind them with Solomon, Smoot and guys like that. You can’t pay $20M for a guy that’s pretty good. You only pay top dollar for stars. Between the draft and FA you fill out the role players, other starters and depth.

I like him as a project and wanted the Bills to take a late round flyer on him last year. To me, it depends on your situation. Milton doesn’t make a ton of sense for a “win now” team like Pittsburgh. He makes a ton of sense for a bad team without a QB like NOLA, LV, Cleveland, NY or NY. Those teams should throw a dart and hope to harness that talent.

That’s an interesting thought.

Interesting: I doubt this goes anywhere but interesting on a couple of fronts. Clearly the Steelers are looking for a “win now” QB. Rodgers feels like a decent option. Maybe Darnold? Maybe Cousins (despite his horrible year)? Maybe someone like Kyler or Geno? Who knows but it sounds like they are thinking outside the box. Secondly, the Jags must be horrible to deal with 🤣🤣. I’m pretty confident that Pittsburgh didn’t want this out there.