Kirby Jackson

Because we have no idea what the Bills want out of that part (for starters). They may have wanted less than that. They also, almost certainly know, how many of those seats that they could sell new if they had the inventory. The % of the stadium is way too small to tell anything. Again, I’m not trying to be that guy but I’ve done this at that level. I have a master’s degree in sports management. I’m not trying to be condescending. I’m trying to tell you the reality of the situation and why sports business is different than other business. I work in insurance now. People aren’t emotionally attached to their insurance policies. Sports numbers do not trend like other businesses for that reason. They also have different objectives than to sell every seat as soon as you can. There’s strategy and leverage at play that is being disregarded (or ignorance).

The numbers that we have on the new stadium, at this point, don’t tell us anything. The numbers that we have at the current stadium, on the road, and on the secondary market say that the demand is off the charts. People can keep digging in to not be wrong but that’s reality. The Bills have ZERO concerns at this point. They almost certainly have a target that they want to hold back. We don’t know that number.

The average account holder is like 2.3 seats (at least it was). The point remains.

That’s the info that we have. We have massive demand currently. You are anticipating that changing based on gut feeling. The data that we have says massive demand for the Bills.

1.6% of 62,000 is 1,000 seats (992 to be exact). Again, with all due respect, you’re trying to educate the wrong guy on how this works. 75% of 992 is 744. That’s what they are saying here. It may be time to bow out of this conversation. A change in screen name is probably in order as well. Lol, this has been going on WAY longer than that. This isn’t new 😂😂

So less than 1,000 seats at this point. People are creating narratives over 250 seats that haven’t been accounted for (yet). Lol, the chicken little aren’t going to like that. The Bills can move those in 3 phone calls. With all due respect, it’s not rare. I’ve done it. Price out the people and roll it into sponsorship packages. That’s VERY common. They shook free 250 seats in the most expensive areas. The Senecas sponsorship deal will be significantly higher when those get offered to them. I’ll elaborate in hopes of this making sense to people. Say the Bills have 100 $50K PSLs that they need to sell. They can sell those and collect $5M. They can leverage those seats to raise the pricing on advertising and other intangible assets. Let’s say that the Senecas spend $2M in advertising. The Bills can say, we will throw in 100 prime PSLs and the whole package will be $10M. The Bills now made an extra $3M by leveraging their demand.

Lol, it’s not significant if it’s 1,000 seats. I’m a club seat holder with 20-30 years of seniority (not sure the exact number but think it’s like 28 years). I am not going until next Tuesday. We have no idea what percentage they expected of what has been shown. They may not want it higher than that. They can then roll those locations into sponsorship packages and get significantly more than the PSL prices. That’s not uncommon at all. Again, you’re making assumptions without any info but a rumored 75% of some number have been accepted. That’s been going on for WAY longer than that. That’s probably a 30 year relationship. ALL professional sports teams have relationships with resellers in 2024. They probably account for 5-10% of all season tickets.

No, I’m not conflating it. The Bills CURRENTLY have a waiting list. That is the data that we have to go off of. They haven’t started selling to most of the people yet. 75% of how many? If you don’t know that answer, it’s meaningless. What % of club seat holders have been called? How many club seats in the new stadium compared to current stadium? If we do not know those answers, which we don’t, we don’t have new stadium data that is meaningful.

We have no idea if that’s a good thing or bad thing. We have no idea what the Bills thought they’d sell in this first wave. They haven’t gotten through the club seat holders yet. I’m next Tuesday. We also have no idea if that’s an actual number. We also don’t know 75% of what? There are a lot of people here connecting dots as to what they think will happen. This is all despite the fact that the actual data that we have to go off supports MASSIVE demand for the Bills. It’ll play out but if we are reading tea leaves, demand is higher than it’s ever been.

When there are no primary seats available (again demand) there is ONLY secondary demand. We can judge demand by primary (waiting list), secondary (high priced tickets on the secondary market), and the Bills on the road (travel as well as any fan base). I’m not sure what you’re trying to dispute? The demand for the Bills is through the roof and ALL metrics support that. When you have a waiting list, you couldn’t have more primary demand. People are forced to the secondary market to consume the product. They value it enough to pay inflated prices. You’re grasping at straws to jam through the narrative that you’re trying to create. Right now, people aren’t picking Miami or season tickets. They are either doing both or picking Miami BECAUSE they can’t get season tickets. The demand is enormous. I think that the default angle is certainly possible. The Bills won’t care so much on the lower priced ones. If someone’s PSL is $2500 and they default after $1500 it doesn’t move the needle. There won’t be enough of those situations to move the needle. If people start defaulting on the $50k ones the Bills will be after them. FWIW, the Bills used to sue people for defaulting on their club seat contracts. That stopped about 15-20 years ago because the juice wasn’t worth the squeeze.

With the 15th pick, the Indianapolis Colts select Quinyon Mitchell, CB, Toledo @CNYfan is on the clock. The Colts have a big need in the secondary and they pick up the draft’s top CB. They considered a pass rusher here but Mitchell’s performance at the Senior Bowl stuck in our minds. With so many great WRs entering the league you need high end CBs that can play in multiple schemes. The Colts were near the bottom of the league in turnovers. His ball skills are appealing.

Well sure, but it absolutely correlates to demand. The same goes for the Bills fans that travel to games. Many people spend the entire cost of a season on away games. The market has shown that people are willing to spend on the Bills. There’s a waiting list for season tickets, resale pricing through the roof and a fan base that travels as well as any fan base in sports. I’m not sure why we should think PSLs will change all of this? The demand is at an all-time high. The timing is PERFECT for the Bills. Yeah, it’s next Tuesday. I’m hopeful that we will be able to get something comparable to where we are now but who knows.

Thank you!! Covered and heated are important to me but a total dealbreaker for her. I’ll be looking at the East Club as well it sounds like. I was hoping that those were the ones that were $15k. I like the 3 year interest free option. I thought it was going to be shorter so feel like that’s a small win.

That’s correct

We have been saying the same thing pretty much the whole time. We just expect a different outcome. We absolutely agree that they are going to adjust the pricing depending on how these club seats sell. The Bills have a revenue target of $200M from PSLs (at least I think that’s what it is). The sale of the club seats will leave a “new target” and then the sale of lower bowl seats will leave another new target. Where we disagree is that they’ll struggle with the sale of the less expensive areas. Bills fans have ALWAYS found the money to support the Bills (at least when they are good). The average household income in Erie County is $84k and the median is $67k. Those are not big numbers. The cheapest ticket to Bills games was $168 last year, top 5 in the league. The lower priced seats have never been a problem. It is the clubs and suites that are tougher. I understand that it goes against some general economic trends but that is just how it has been for them. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2023/09/06/nfl-ticket-prices-2023-cheapest-most-expensive-prices/70722888007/

If you are lower level, between the 20’s, you were going to be the people most impacted by the new stadium. I work with a guy that has 1960 seniority and he’s at the 46 yard line, 30 rows up. He’s terrified of what’s coming for him (and rightfully so). Of all of the people in the stadium, that’s where the most “turnover” will happen. That sucks for you and others in that situation.

Good luck!!! Let us know how it goes

That was the reason that a refurb was never an option. The lower level seats, between the 20’s were the most underpriced seats in all of sports. The Bills knew that. In order to “right size” the stadium they needed to get way more money for the best locations. They needed the clean slate of the new stadium to provide that cover. While they will give the people with 1965 seniority the opportunity to retain their location, it will be at a significantly higher price that more accurately reflects the market for those seats around the league. Those are the people that’ll be most impacted here. Many say that they won’t downgrade but we will see. I’ve seen that story before when we did a reconfiguration. 75% of the people said that there was no way that they would go to a lesser location, especially at the same price that they were already paying. 90% of those people did end up downgrading when all was said and done. It was a small handful that “stuck to their guns.” I suspect that will be the case here as well.

90% is always the renewal rate goal in sports. You get an award in the NBA at 90%. The Bills retention, especially recently, has been well north of that. The NFL is generally closer to 100%. That is going to be the case here as well. We “know” at this point that 3 out of 4 have said yes but that is a small, small, small, small percentage of the total universe. It is also, FAR AND AWAY the most expensive options. So far, they are through maybe 5% of the seats. I just got called last Thursday and am a club seat holder with 20-30 years of seniority. It’s probably closer to 2%. The PSLs that are <$5k will be sold at 95% plus. That will be at least 70% of the stadium. This isn’t going to be the issue that some are predicting. Legends knows EXACTLY what they are doing. They’re the best at this. The PSLs selling will not be a problem here. The vocal minority does not represent what is actually happening / what will happen.

I’m in 237. 237

I went to the draft once. I was excited when the Bills went on the clock. They picked Tommy Doyle.

I apparently got my invite last Thursday. I didn’t see it in my email (that email address has so much spam and apparently I can’t change it with the Bills). At any rate, I’m registered for next Tuesday. I’ll report back.

Pay Justin Simmons and let’s roll!!!

I’ll take Indy. That feels random enough

Fair I should have said that no one likes them. Owners like PSLs. Ticketmaster, StubHub, etc.. love ticketing fees. It feels like they continue to go up too. You buy a $70 ticket and pay $30 in ticketing fees.