Kirby Jackson

Any scheme designed to have Josh Allen as a role player, fits right into what other teams want. The Bills playing to “run the ball and stop the run” is an opponent’s dream. This team, as currently constructed, needs to be the Josh Allen show. The Bills don’t have the pieces around him that other winning teams do. The top of the Bills roster is very weak comparatively. The starting 5 being “workable” isn’t impressive. You need a guy(s) at the top of the depth chart that teams fear!! They have a top 10 TE and 4 WRs that would be number 3’s in most offenses (no one higher than WR 4 in Houston or Chicago). The Bills have assembled a group of pass catchers, that one of the most respected, data-driven, football minds, ranked as the 28th best group. Why would anyone defend that? It’s okay to want them to succeed. That’s what we all want. Looking at it objectively though, it isn’t a good group compared to their peers. With Josh Allen, in his prime, that’s a mistake. I don’t think any reasonable person could argue that they are good enough there. At best, you hope that some of the lottery tickets are winners. At worst, you have a bunch of WRs that can’t get open and make plays. Josh Allen will need to be Superman to have this team competing for the playoffs. Thats a failure of roster management.

I think that the biggest divide in this thread is the “possibility” of this group performing well vs. the “likelihood” of them playing well. Someone earlier said that Peterman could outperform Mahomes. He certainly could. Justin Shorter could have 2,000 yards receiving. Those of us skeptical of the receiving room are looking at the likelihood. This group, on paper, is one of the worst in the league. Do I think that the Bills will have one of the worst passing attacks in the league? No. They have Josh Allen. The point is, if they end up with the 12th(ish) best passing attack, they would have been much higher with even an average room. My biggest issue is not surrounding Josh with elite talent. He is asked to elevate role players. The entire focus should be, give Allen everything to create an unstoppable offense and be good enough everywhere else. The Bills philosophy, in the Allen era, has been to allocate $ and elite draft picks to the defense and let Allen cover for their deficiencies. They’ve kind of made more of an effort over the last couple of drafts. Although when they desperately needed a WR they traded down twice and selected the 8th guy at the position. Despite where he was picked that doesn’t scream to me the Bills saying, “we need to get Josh more help.” This team lacks talent comparatively. Look at all of the top 50 or top 100 player lists. See how many Bills players are on their vs. other top teams. Could Andy Isabella or KJ Hamler end up on their next year? Sure. Is it likely? Of course not. That’s the issue. Those of us holding the Bills to a higher standard are in “wait and see” mode like the rest of you. We just aren’t expecting things that are highly unlikely to happen. We wanted, and still want, the Bills to add more weapons that are LIKELY to contribute as opposed to COULD contribute.

Thank you for leaning in. I believe the ceiling to be significantly lower than you do. It’s a bunch of number 3’s and a lottery ticket that never has gotten separation. If Coleman is St. Brown or AJ Brown, that changes things. If he’s a Gabe replacement, they are significantly worse than last year. I’m especially down on Claypool as I have a close friend who is a scout at the Bears. He called him a “cancer” and said, “he was one of the worst guys that he has seen in a locker room.” This friend played 7 years in the NFL. His text, the moment the Bills signed him was “Claypool 🤮.” He said, “we sent him home and got better.” I clearly have some bias against him but not without context. He has ability. I think the odds of him being good again are about 10%. He’s more likely to be a disaster than a quality player.

Is it safe to say that the Commanders may be as good at QB as the Bills by that logic? It’s just vibes but unknown on the Commanders end. They took an ultra-productive QB. We don’t know if he will be the best QB in the league, average or bad. He’s more likely to be elite than the Bills WRs based on talent, pedigree and resume.

Those sound like excuses. We can look at the talent, pedigree and resumes of every team and compare them. That’s what Sharp did. That’s what people do at this time of year. The reason that some are shy to do it is because it isn’t impressive comparatively. None of us would hesitate to stack Josh’s talent, pedigree and resume against his peers. That’s because he will show as elite.

Okay, all of them, go…

Who are the 11 teams better in a best case scenario? Who are the rest if we are top 16? The problem that some of us are struggling with is that no one is going on record with the teams. Obviously no one will say that the Bills have better pass catchers than SF but waiting for someone to (incorrectly) say that they are better than Atlanta or someone like that.

If there is a “notion to the contrary” someone should list the teams lower and support it. We are seeing a bunch of “they are better than Warren Sharp’s ranking” but no one is stepping up and listing the teams that they are better than. That doesn’t feel right. I have them bottom 3 with New England and LA Chargers.

You’re talking the card for entry not the Bills Bucks card right?

Objective: Isabella, Claypool, Hamler and MVS all flamed out in their previous stops. Feel free to dispute that if you believe that not to be a fact. Keon Coleman was the 8th WR drafted. Khalil Shakir has 49 career catches. Curtis Samuel has averaged 45 catches a year. Lol, Warren Sharp ranked them 28th based on talent, pedigree and resumes (I presume). Feel free to dispute it but list the teams that you THINK are worse. Don’t just say you don’t agree. Support your point. List the teams that are worse.

Everything is an objective opinion at the point. This is an objective opinion from a person that’s career is evaluating this stuff. I share a similar opinion. It’s fine to be optimistic or pessimistic. I’ve elected realistic. At this point, there is no reason to believe that they are better than that. The resumes and pedigrees of most of the roster doesn’t support optimism. Could they overachieve? Sure? If they overachieve, that could catapult them to 22 perhaps? That’s still not good enough. When you have Josh Allen, his weapons shouldn’t be outside of the top 10. His job shouldn’t be to overcome the limitations of the guys around him. They should be amplifying his immense talents.

I agree on all fronts. The TEs would bump the Bills up a few spots (25ish). The conversation in this thread and the Warren Sharp article are slightly different. The pass catchers are 25ish and the WRs are 29ish.

Since it includes TEs I’d have a tough time putting Baltimore below the Bills. Andrews & Likely > Kincaid & Knox (at this point). Zay Flowers is also better than any WR on the Bills. In our “just WR discussion” you could make a case that the Ravens should be below the Bills (especially if Bateman doesn’t take a step forward).

That’s Warren Sharp, not me. I don’t have a career dedicated to football analytics and analysis. Go bet him: https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/analysis/best-nfl-wide-receiver-tight-end-rankings/

And that includes TEs

I guess that I don’t care about preserving for the future. They are preserving to get a number 1 anyways. It’ll just be a year from now.

I believe that once they traded Diggs, they needed to replace someone at the top of the depth chart. I believed that they needed to take one of the top 3 (even at the expense of next year’s 1) or trade for Ayiuk and pay him. It’s the 2nd or 3rd most important position on the team. The Bills have an elite QB. They should have only cared about loading up for Josh.

Um, the title of this thread is, “I'm really starting to love this WR room. We quietly got better.” That doesn’t say, “the Bills pass catchers.” We can have a conversation about WRs without including the RBs and TEs (who are both decent). Of course though, you didn’t go on record with the WR rooms that you think are worse. The numbers don’t support many ranking lower. Even some bad WR rooms have a stud (Pickens and McLaurin). The Bills are in the bottom 3 and I’m sorry that I don’t feel good about that with prime Josh Allen. We should be loading up weapons for him not asking him to carry lesser players. We will win because of Josh Allen.

There are 32 NFL teams. 1 to 32 where would you say that the Bills WRs rank?Please be specific in the WR rooms that you think are worse. This DOES NOT INCLUDE TES. There are a lot of people in this thread confident in the group but when you compare them to other teams it’s hard to say that they aren’t 30, 31 or 32. It’s impossible to say that they are better than like 27. If they hit on all cylinders this year their ceiling is about 20-22. That’s just not good enough. That’s the frustration.

Sorry for the confusion. I agree on Toney and put that earlier somewhere. The only difference is that they traded a 3rd & 6th for Toney who was only in his 2nd year at the time (at least I think). It hasn’t worked out but his resume of struggles was much shorter than Isabella and Hamler (Claypool too but he’s also had success). Toney is more like those guys but the Chiefs invested fairly heavily to get him (vs. waiver wire guys).

Hamler, Isabella and Claypool had all washed out at their previous stops (Claypool multiple spots). One of those guys MAX will make the roster. While they are in the tier with a guy like Toney, he still has a smaller resume of failure.

I guess that I didn’t realize Hardman was a 2nd round pick. They have 6 WRs drafted in the 1st 2 rounds then. So we have 5 guys picked in round 2 (including Hamler, Isabella and Claypool fighting for roster spots). They have 3 guys that were drafted in the 2nd and 3 more drafted in the 1st. They’ve committed to bringing in talent.

I don’t think that the Chiefs WRs are great but the effort is there. They drafted one in the first this year. They traded for a guy that was drafted in the first this year. They traded for a guy drafted in the first last year. They drafted WRs in the 2nd last year and the year before. The Chiefs have 5 WRs drafted in the 1st or 2nd. They’ve tried to find high end talent. I’m not counting TEs in this WR discussion.

Have fun!! They do a nice job. When you get to the tent I’m not sure if it’s under your name or mine. If you have trouble, just text me. 🫡

I gave you the Bills pricing link in the post. You can divide it out to get the per game. @Billy Claude gave some other sources. I’m actually quite surprised that anyone believed that without the simplest of fact checking. It’s about double what it actually costs. The Bills are still WAY underpriced compared to the rest of the league (especially on the lower sidelines). The new stadium is “right sizing” it to a degree.