Kirby Jackson

Who else can offer anything like that? I was thinking about putting this is a new thread but can anyone design a trade for another team to get to 2 that beats that offer using the Rich Hill hill chart? Who else can pay the 146.51 points that the Bills would give with 12, 22, 53, 65 and a 2nd next year?

Quick plea to everyone, can we have enough class to care about the person for a little while? He is a human being that clearly has some issues. Can we not use this as an opportunity to talk about what it means for the draft? Or whether or not he is a bust?!? Let’s act like humans for a little while. That’s someone’s son, brother, etc....

I’d be concerned about Zay. Something was clearly going on. Hopefully he can get the help that he needs and overcome whatever he is battling.

Wtf?!? This is crazy

Or Eric Fisher...the Dion Jordan trade compared to the RG3 trade is a good example. Some years you get Anthony Davis at 1 and sometimes you get Anthony Bennett. Not all drafts are the same for sure.

Yes, but the conversation started with the charts. They use the same general parameters. These charts were created to judge value. That is the same reason that coaches have 2 point conversion charts. You can technically go whenever you want but there are a general set of rules that team’s subscribe to. It’s the same way with trades. If the Giants say “we won’t trade unless it is 10 first round picks” they will be picking 2. If they have an interest in dealing that pick the chart will be used by both sides. They will get a premium (as Hokie explained) but there will be a point that they will have no demand.

I think that all of those possibilities are on the table. It will depend on the grades that the Bills have on these guys. How close do they have them? If they have 4 guys close and one is there at 7 they will probably jump. If they have Jackson close to them or only like 1 guy that will change things too.

Certainly possible and not something that the Bills can control. If they don’t want to trade they won’t trade. There is an offer though that they will take (10 firsts?). The point is somewhere along the way they will agree. It is just a matter of whether or not the Bills think that price is one that they aren’t willing to pay.

Again, this trade was formulated based on the hundreds of draft trades made (actual NFL draft trades) since the new CBA went into play. There are trades (like the Dolphins for Dion Jordan) that drag it down while trades like the Jets up the value. This is the guide that teams are using though. The Jets paid roughly a 34.6% premium. That’s the market now.

He is probably my least favorite Bills player that I can remember. He was scared to play football. I’m not sure that he would have ever been more than okay but that would have been better than a lot of guys that we had.

That’s not how it works though. Teams use this as a guide and also use the market. The Giants will want roughly what the Jets got. The Bills can get it done fairly easily. They Giants will bite or they won’t but there aren’t many other teams that can put together that package.

If my math is right if the Bills give 12, 22, 53, 65 and a 3rd next year they are paying roughly 141.75 points. That’s a 156% premium. The Jets paid roughly 136.54 points. That’s a 152% premium. Again, this assumes that my math is right. That chart was created based on actual trades that have taken place from the time of the new CBA to the last draft. You usually pay a premium going up. I laid out an offer above that should get it done IMO.

Isn’t that the old Jimmy Johnson chart? That’s pretty antiquated. The Rich Hill Chart is more indicative of what is going on now:

They are bringing him in to race Orlando Brown

That’s what my issue was with dumping Sammy. They underrated the value of him on the field. That’s the past though. When I think of that play specifically I think “who on the Bills could do that?” You need that answer to be about 3-4 different guys. In the Bills case it is Shady. That is why the WR group is not good. Outside of Benjamin’s contested catches they don’t do anything to help the team. They don’t have good route runners, they are terribly slow, don’t catch very well and teams can load the box. It is a massive area of need. The odd thing is that Carolina has always undervalued the position. They favored guys like Funchess and Benjamin over more explosive guys. That is not the philosophy that I believe in. I think that you need to make explosive plays. Benjamin is a fine NFL player but he needs a playmaker on the other side of at least his quality.

I’m not giving up on Zay. I liked the pick a lot. At this point though I would give Zay up for Ju-Ju without blinking. He would have certainly been a better choice. The Bills don’t have anybody (but Shady) capable of making this play (Pittsbugh has about 5 guys that can):

I can’t speak for Dansby but I moved much better a decade ago.

That’s not what it is going to cost. The Giants are picking 2 then. The Bills can get there for 12, 22, and 2 of 53, 56 & 65 plus a 2nd, 3rd or 4th next year. It will be those 5 picks or it isn’t happening. The math has already been done on here. The Bills would be paying a premium at those numbers (not as high of a premium as the Jets). No one else can come close to that package.

This would have excited me when Dansby and I were 28. I don’t like it as much now that we are both 36.

I don’t hate him. It is probably a lot of “I told you so” in this thread. He was the 4th receiver for the Eagles and people actually believed that going from Watkins to Matthews was an upgrade!! He’s an okay slot guy but in no way should he have been thought of as an acceptable option as the top receiver. The Bills admitted that mistake about 8 weeks after us. They didn’t even wait the year out. Matthews seems like a nice guy and a smart guy. Shady likes him too. The idea that he was ever going to be more than a JAG though was woefully misguided. The Bills, to their credit though, tried to move on quickly by adding Benjamin. He’s limited too but is a better version of Matthews. The Bills still have a massive need at WR and some of that came from believing that Matthews was a viable option. The rest of it came from trading up for Zay (which I liked at the time). In hindsight, they should have tried to get Benjamin earlier and drafted Ju-Ju instead of Zay. That’s water under the bridge at this point though.

We just disagree on the losing proposition part. I think that you are 50/50 ish. I agree that not all of these guys will be great but some will. The percentages say that you are much more likely to find your QB there than anywhere else. The Bills have the assets to do it now and have planned on it. Every action that they have taken has suggested a move up for an elite QB prospect. If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work and you swing again in a couple of years. You are WAY more likely to find a QB doing that than by throwing darts at the best available at the time of your picks. FWIW, I don’t hate the idea of Lamar Jackson at 12. I just think it is a smarter strategy to pay the price using this year’s assets to get up and get the guy that you want. I’ve always been under the assumption that it is Josh Rosen.

Yep, that’s why he never through to JMatt. He never checked the “open” receiver box. Ha ha, where are all of those hot takes now...

If you think that Smith, Palmer, Vick or Newton is a clear bust we just aren’t going to agree.

What about a guy that won the MVP, was 15-1 and played in the Super Bowl? Clear bust?

I feel bad saying it because he seems like a nice guy. Sometimes though I like to say “ha ha I told you so.” It’s a fine line between celebrating being right and disparaging a seemingly good dude. It’s the EJ Manuel effect