Kirby Jackson

I understand that. They were okay going from 28 to 32 not knowing if Coleman would be there. What is the Pats went to 31? What is SF took him instead of Pearsall? There’s layers to this… I understand that. See above ^. When they went from 28 to 32 there was no guarantee that Coleman OR Legette would be there.

It sounds like the Bills were down with either of them. It’s a little ironic though that they went down 4 spots giving KC their guy but were like, “oh no, not the Pats.” That feels backwards to me. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Either way, messing with the Pats is hilarious. They let them negotiate the deal and then took it to Carolina 😂😂.

He also had Antonio Brown (another HOFer). Corey Dillon won the rushing title in his first year in New England. He scored 39 TDS in his 3 years there. He was a beast 20 years ago. You might be too young to remember that. Of course QBs elevate WRs. No one is arguing that. The problem that I have is, why would you have Josh Allen trying to elevate guys like John Brown, Cole Beasley, Kelvin Benjamin, Gabe Davis, Robert Foster, etc instead of drafting guys early with more ability? If you have Josh Allen, don’t force him to raise average players. Give him some elite talent and let it raise further (like they did with Diggs). When Diggs got here he was a borderline Pro Bowl WR. In his 4 years he went to 4 pro bowls, was an all pro and had 4 seasons of 100 plus catches. Those were the top 4 seasons in terms of receptions in Buffalo Bills history. He also turned out the top 2 yardage seasons and the top TD season. He’s arguably the best WR that the Bills have ever had. He’s not the most talented (but he’s quite talented). That’s kind of what I’m referring to. Give Josh top 20ish talents and watch them become top 5 guys and an elite offense. They’re asking him to elevate top 75-100 guys (Kincaid excluded).

😂😂😂

Bro, you look ridiculous. 😂😂 You’ve said multiple things in this thread that weren’t true and been called out every time. We tell the truth around here. It’s one thing to be wrong and get called out. We have all had that. It’s a whole different level when you keep pushing your chips in, falling further and further into the hole that you dug. That’s where you’re at. Go back through this thread and read every single interaction that we have had.

Where? 😂😂 Are you talking about me saying that “if Coleman is good and Shakir develops, they can be average?” That isn’t saying what’s GOING to happen. That’s what I HOPE happens. Come on man, you’re better than that.

He played with a top 3 TE all time and a top 3 WR all time. He had a good OL. He had Corey Dillon in his prime. He had elite slot receivers. He went to Tampa and had Evans and Godwin. Brady had at least 3 pass catchers that are in, or going to, the HOF. Moss, Gronk and Evans are either in Canton or going.

Still not seeing where I said that I knew what would happen next year. That’s what you claimed earlier. Please quote it…You’re embarrassing yourself. It’s time to bow out. Stop swinging because I’m going to hold you accountable to everything that you’ve said that isn’t true. I will let you off the hook if you walk away.

I hope that you’re right. I don’t love their philosophy. I believe you give Josh the stars. They believe, Josh will just elevate average guys. We will see I guess…

Yep, that’s it. I’m not sure that you understood the task. Now where did I say what would happen this year?

Okay, he was tied for 105th in catches with 39. He caught 20 of those 39 after Brady took over. Please quote where I said that I knew what would happen this year. Add it right here for everyone to see. One of us isn’t telling the truth and it’s not me… Be better Oh, it’s going to have to. Do I think that group stack up with other good offenses? Of course not. I like all 3 players but with the exception of Kincaid they are nice role players not lead guys. That’s the issue. The top of the depth chart needs to be filled. Hopefully they will grow this year, maintain and get an alpha in 2025.

Oh, I think he will be at 85+. I’m not arguing that he will be thrown the ball more. He needs those targets. I was just saying that, “he didn’t have volume last year.” He didn’t. If he can be as productive on double the targets, he will be a really good player.

Bro, you’re tripling down?!? He was thrown the ball 45 times last year. What is a better volume stat for a WR than targets? 🤣🤣 That was tied with Nick Westbrook Ikhine and 1 behind Luke Musgrave. I believe that was 113th. Just stop or I’m going to continue dragging you and your false information. For the 100th time, no one knows what will happen this year. What we do know, is he was effective with 45 balls thrown his way. Stop arguing with facts.

Gotta love, “Josh it’s up to you to raise the level of skill around you.” That’s fireable imo. I’ve been a huge Beane supporter since he got here. I’ve been lukewarm on McDermott. Phillosophically, I differ from them greatly on that. If Josh Allen were my QB, I would invest every prime asset I could in surrounding him with elite talent. You’re going to win BECAUSE of him. Their philosophy is that it doesn’t matter who’s around him because we have him. That hasn’t worked to date. Please don’t talk about the assets that they invested in Diggs, etc.. I don’t want to have to pull the data again of the assets allocated to the DL over WR. It’s disgusting. Depending on how this year goes, I would be okay pulling the plug on this regime. Lots of people could win 11 games and 1 playoff game with Josh Allen. I’m ready to try something different. That’s not good enough with that unicorn playing QB. You’ve failed him.

One guy was voted as a team captain and recognized as the hardest worker on the team. The other was paid to stay home from his team. They improved when he went home. He’s a terrible teammate. Claypool had 77 yards and 1 TD last year. For perspective Sherfield had 86 yards and 1 TD. Before you say, “go back further” Claypool had 451 and 1 TD in 2022. Sherfield had 417 yards and 2 TDs. Why are we pretending that this guy is someone that he isn’t?

I’m tired man. Having a different opinion is great. Healthy debate is what makes this place fun. If you’re going to say something defend it and be specific. There are way too many posters now just talking out of their 🍑. Lastly, don’t make claims that can easily be fact checked. Certainly don’t double down on it. We all just need to be better around here.

This you? I jumped in when you said, “Shakir provided volume last year.” He didn’t. You then talked about it picking up when Gabe went backwards. It didn’t really. The ball was thrown to Gabe more than Shakir even under Brady. Shakir never had volume. He had 45 targets. No one questioned his efficiency. The question is, “will he be as good with significantly more targets and significantly more defensive attention?” We don’t know that answer. We do know that he hasn’t handled volume despite you claiming otherwise.

As of today, they are. That’s not really debatable. I think that Samuel can fill Gabe’s volume. I also think that he’s going to see a handful of carries. I’m an Ohio State fan and love the player. He’s more playmaker than pure WR. Shakir had 24 targets once Brady took over. That extrapolated is 58 targets on the year. As I said, he absolutely did not handle volume last year. Understand now?

I agree that they absolutely are primarily slot guys. I was simply saying that he offers a skill set that they do not currently have. I also think that you’re right, that it’ll be a few different guys down the field. If Coleman can be a more reliable Gabe, he will be a good pickup. Gabe’s issue was that he was so limited in the routes that he ran well. To this point, Coleman has similar struggles. He’s young though and has lots of upside.

Exactly!! I still think that the Bills win 11+ games and probably the division. I just don’t see them closer to a championship. Josh will need to be Superman but I fully expect him to be.

They’ll have to run some. The question is who? The Shakir point was a response to, “he handled volume last year.” He didn’t handle volume at all. He was very efficient but on a low target number. I like Shakir a lot and believe that he’s the best WR on the team. Saying that he had volume last year just isn’t true. Gabe wasn’t very good and I didn’t want him back. He did do a couple of things well (primarily get down the field when Josh broke free). We can make up for his production but can we offset his big play ability? That remains to be seen.

In terms of Gabe, the question was, “who now runs the 9 route?” Shakir had 45 targets!! What are you talking about that he handled volume??? Kincaid had 91 targets. If you take just the Brady games it was 40. If you extrapolate that across the season it’s 97 targets. The WR room last year wasn’t good enough. It was way better than this group. Now if Coleman is good and Shakir continues to develop they can be an average WR room. At the moment, they’re inarguably in the bottom 3. What are you talking about? Why wouldn’t he have been a 6th? He’s little and has short arms, but he’s quick, twitchy and productive. He would have more value on the Bills than on many other teams because we lack that skill set. Neither Shakir nor Samuel are twitchy route runners. They’re converted RBs that are good with the ball in their hands. You have to throw go routes on occasion. If you don’t throw the ball down the field you’re going to see 11 man boxes. It’ll be tough to run, tough to throw those quick screens that Brady likes and difficult for Josh to find space to take off. And before you say, “yeah but Samuel runs a 4.31” he has a career YPC of 10.7 yards.

Based on what? This isn’t just directed at you but I’m trying to understand how TO isn’t on every list. He’s 3rd all-time in yards (ahead of Randy Moss) and TDs. Anyone that doesn’t have TO I’d love to hear the reasoning (other than he was with the Bills for 1 year and wasn’t great here).

Yep, TO is a top 5 WR all-time. He is 3rd all-time in receiving yards and 3rd all-time in receiving TDs. WR is obviously the Bills biggest need. If it is “any guy in their prime” he’s obvious.

If it is the player in their prime (even if it wasn’t with the Bills) it is TO and Mario Williams. If it is their prime had to be with the Bills Moulds and Mario.