Kirby Jackson

I went the Saints because I think that their defense is elite. They may have the best defense in football. Jameis was great last year before suffering an injury. They added talent on offense and get Thomas back. The loss of Payton will hurt the offense some but I could see like 10-7 or 11-6 winning it. The Saints own the Bucs as well.

I appreciate you being bold enough to try to answer the question that no one else has. So the 1st 8 games of 2002 overshadow the other 83% of games that he played in a Bills uniform? That’s the answer that you gave because the 2nd half of 2002 was terrible (you can see the splits above). I just don’t agree that 17% of his games should matter more than the other 83% (especially because none of that 17% was in the playoffs). Jamarcus Russell had INSANE arm talent. He was awful. To me, I care about what you ACTUALLY did, not what you COULD possibly do. The fact remains that Tyrod averaged more yards, TDs, wins, less turnovers and a higher completion percentage.

But he scored WAY more often than Bledsoe. He averaged more yards than Bledsoe. He was more efficient than Bledsoe. He turned it over WAY less often than Bledsoe. He won significantly more than Bledsoe. Please elaborate on why your perception is that Bledsoe was better? What, specifically, did Bledsoe do better?

It might have had to do with reps. I guess that I’m okay with a little rust in exchange for no risk of injury. Obviously there are injuries and reps in practice but you get the point. There’s no perfect answer. It’s personal preference.

Without the blocked punt, they win the opener. Josh slips in Tennessee or they win. The Jags game, I don’t even know what to say. There were a lot of games that could have went differently for that 1 seed. I guess that the way that I look at it is the risk isn’t there with a team this good. If the starters play a quarter in each game that’s 6 total quarters. If ANY of them go out for 6 or 8 weeks (or whatever) it wasn’t worth the 3 quarters that they got. It doesn’t just have to be Allen. I won’t name names because I don’t want to jinx them but there are a lot of guys that we can’t withstand that type of injury to.

Everything is fine if he comes out completely healthy (and everyone else does as well). If you could GUARANTEE me that every Bills player would exit the preseason, without so much as a scratch, I’d be all for it. Play them the whole game. Health is infinitely more important than scrimmage reps. I’m not willing to risk it for even a small chance of injury to any key guys. This is Super Bowl or bust. Don’t make it any harder on yourself.

But he was plenty healthy/rested at the end of the season when it matters. The last 2 games may have been the best 2 games of his career. Thankfully he didn’t incur an injury in preseason that put him out for a period of time or nagged throughout the year. The Bills were the healthiest team in the NFL last year. Some of that can be attributed to the preseason approach.

It really just blows my mind that so many people have him in their top 3. The guy had as many turnovers as TDs!! He set an NFL record (at the time) with 10 lost fumbles in a season. He lost more than he won despite talent around him. He was sacked 140 times in 4 years!! He only scored 59 TDs in 48 starts including the hot 8 game stretch. Outside of that he was accounting for less than a TD a game and more than 1 turnover per game. Just an awful football player. People thinking that Bledsoe was good is probably my biggest Bills pet peeve. When you show the proof and ask them, “why” you always hear about his arm or those 8 games. The guy played 4 years and set the drought in motion. He was closer to Edwards than to Fitz/Tyrod.

So you preferred: 23-25 59.1% completion 214.3 total ypg (passing and rushing) 59 total TDs 58 turnovers 140 sacks to this: 23-20 62.6% completion 238 total yards per game 65 total TDs 21 turnovers Help me understand what about the top was better than the bottom?

I’m good with it. I don’t care if any of those main guys play. If they sat 12 guys throughout the preseason you won’t hear me complain. The goal is a Super Bowl. This team needs to stay healthy again. Don’t add chances for injury. They’ve been together a while and by all accounts the system isn’t too much different. Additionally, there is a lot of competition for the back of the roster. I’d just assume see those guys get the reps. I’m all for the return of “Club Marv.”

I had Orton next on my list earlier. He wasn’t here long but I tried to look at just their time in a Bills uniform. He would be 3 if you went just drought era instead of post-Kelly.

Yep, that’s all people choose to remember. Those stats that I just posted INCLUDE that stretch (which was less than 17% of his starts). Earlier I posted just how dreadful he was in the other 40 starts. Bledsoe does not belong in the top 3 or in the conversation. I’m not sure that there is even a debate as to the top 3 (if you allow Flutie to be included in the drought era). It’s Flutie, Fitz and Tyrod in whichever order.

Best case: Sweep the division and finish 15-2 Worst case: Lose 2 divisional games and finish 11-6 (still win the division)

That is not the best QB play of the drought era. Why do so many people remember Bledsoe as “good?” 23-25 59.1% completion 214.3 total ypg (passing and rushing) 59 total TDs 58 turnovers 140 sacks Here is Tyrod for comparison (counting the game Rex lined him up a WR for the 1st play): 23-20 62.6% completion 238 total yards per game 65 total TDs 21 turnovers 124 sacks Someone please tell me what it is that Bledsoe did better? Please don’t say “eye test” either because I’ll challenge it with “memory test.” He won less, was less efficient, scored less, turned it over WAY more and put up less yards. He’s literally worse across the board. I used Taylor because they have roughly the same amount of starts.

Again, that factors in the whole year and he had elite receivers. The 2nd half of the year, he accounted for 9 TDs and 14 turnovers!! That’s TERRIBLE. Bledsoe is remembered so fondly (and wrongly) by Bills fans because of an 8 game stretch. When you remove those 8 games he was atrocious.

* the first 8 games of Bledsoe’s first season. After those 8 games he was 3-5, 9 total TDs, 14 turnovers and 24 sacks. He was not great his first year. He played a good 8 games.

I’ll take a crack at ranking them: Doug Flutie Tyrod Taylor Ryan Fitzpatrick Kyle Orton Rob Johnson Drew Bledsoe JP Losman Trent Edwards EJ Manuel Kelly Holcomb Thad Lewis Alex Van Pelt Matt Cassel Todd Collins Jeff Tuel Nathaniel Peterman

Flutie, Tyrod and Fitz in whatever order you want. There isn’t anyone else in the conversation (Orton is next). Please, please, please do not say Bledsoe. I posted his stats in that Tyrod thread. If you like 57% completion, more turnovers than TDs, 110 sacks in 40 games and a losing record, he’s your man. Don’t let the 8 game stretch fool you. If you do that, count that Trent Edwards 5 game stretch. Bledsoe was so bad but for some reason people remember it differently. No one has been given the benefit of the doubt more than him. He stinks.

I’m 100% with you here Scott. Bledsoe is THE most overrated player that the Bills have ever had. He wasn’t even okay. He played 8 good games and then was a nightmare. More turnovers than TDs, 110 sacks in 40 games, 57% completion and an 18-22 record with that talent. Just disgusting

If you don’t think that Tyrod was good, which clearly you don’t, there are things that you can point to. Pointing to a game where the defense gave up 300 yards on the ground and 6 rushing TDs ain’t it!! They ran on 24 consecutive plays!!!! That’s like blaming Josh for the KC loss. Totally misguided. It’s amazing how people remember Bledsoe’s Bills career. The guy played with a lot of talent around him. After those first 8 games Bledsoe’s record was 18-22. He completed 702-1,213 for a 57.9% completion percentage. He threw 39 TDs and 38 INTs. Bledsoe was sacked 110 times in 40 games!!! He also lost 19 fumbles in those same 40 games!! He had 4 rushing TDs in that window. So to recap he had 43 total TDs, 57 turnovers and was sacked 110 times!!!! He was so much worse than people seem to remember. He played 8 good games with a loaded roster. Bledsoe belongs in the group with EJ, Losman and Edwards.

Tyrod was way better than he got credit for around here. He was definitely better than Bledsoe. If you take out Bledsoe’s first 8 games in Buffalo he is no better than Losman, EJ, Edwards. He was AWFUL. Fitz had higher highs and lower lows. I think that Tyrod was more effective but less impactful. You could pick either of those 2. I think, even though it was a brief stay, Tyrod probably best compares to Orton. He gave his team a chance to win. He was a high end game manager. In terms of current QBs, Tyrod would be like 2022 Matt Ryan. He won’t elevate you or hurt you.

So you aren’t attracted to Boyst in a dress?

I think that you might find those 2 to be more reliable (maybe). In terms of “scary” though Allen is capable of doing things that neither of them are. They aren’t capable of doing anything that he isn’t. They just have less games like Atlanta or Jacksonville. Allen, when he’s clicking, is the scariest.