ctk232

The lack of pressure on Darnold got me - the kid is a turnover machine, but especially when pressured. Tre had one of his worst games of his career in the secondary, and injuries aside our run defense was up and down. I can see some of the points conceded on short field situations thanks to special teams, but defensively we seemed to be a different team yesterday than from previous weeks, both in game plan and performance. Would really like to see the cover 1 breakdowns for why.

There's always the XFL then. Or even the FFL now with Ricky WIlliams, TO, and Simeon Rice - if you honestly think the NFL is over, you have options OP

It could also be argued that if he throws from the top of his drop he should hit Zay in stride over the middle - QBs have made that play. It's more the timing and recognition piece of this. He may have felt the pressure which caused him to stride and tuck and run, but I do think he had a window to throw, especially if he knows Zay is the first read on the play. Yes, Sirles doesn't help by getting bull rushed, but it doesn't completely justify the tuck and run here.

And he STILL holds it after being out three weeks straight...

^This. Romo's comment as well, but especially that piece where Allen equally needs to learn to trust himself to get the ball to his playmakers, and that he doesn't have to tuck it and run on every 3rd down. I think his present ability to run creates tremendous scheming issues for opposing defenses when combined with the PAP and jet sweep/pre-snap movement. But there are plays like the third down with Shady open 14 yards down the field. I wonder if he is second guessing himself due to accuracy issues, and would rather run and fight for the first that way than risk missing on third and having to punt. Either way, it's something I would like to see more of to balance out his run threat. He's shown it before, but especially on those third down conversion scenarios, I want to see him trust himself to get the ball to his playmakers.

Speed and youth: Zay, Foster, McKenzie, and Ray Ray...Thompson doesn't so much fit the youth movement much, but I hope his hands come back once he gets more rapport with Allen. Don't we typically use max 3 WR personnel packages with Clay as the 4th WR/TE? I also bet the plan is to really evaluate Zay's potential within the corps, although many of us are of the opinion he's a stout slot WR or WR2 ceiling, they may want to see how he performs more as the WR1 in certain route schemes. Just not sure what we plan to do for size...which is most useful in the red zone and third downs

He won't, but he wasn't entirely misleading in his comments either. From the article, it sounds like his ideal scenario is to go BPA in any draft in general as much as possible, and to use FA to support that goal of minimizing needs going into the draft. There are many different philosophies out there for how to approach FA and the draft, and some even treat them as mutually exclusive of each other in terms of how they are used to build out a roster. Jury is still out, but he admitted Allen/QB was his target first and foremost last year, but that the rest of the players fell as the draft unfolded and the Bills boards were reconciled. It's speculation, but it appears Beane thinks the draft is best utilized by pursuing BPA as a priority, and taking select picks at positions of need if the value is there. As for FA, it sounds like he's resource focused and from the jist of the article, it seems as though he's more for getting a guy that will fit and impact the roster (as does every GM) but that he isn't so much concerned with what he'd have to pay to get them here a la his mention of limited resources losing out to higher offers from other teams. Plenty of people here would be concerned by that, and I'm always skeptical of overpaying FA players myself. But it sounds like we can hedge our bets that Beane will provide ample incentive if he likes a guy, and we've already seen the contracts he offered to Star and Murphy as evidence that he's not afraid to commit $ for potential. I haven't seen anything to the contrary so far, but I'd like to hear more about locking down some of our clear young talent (Tre, Milano, etc.) for longer term when the time comes, and how that may affect spending this FA year and the next. But to your point, we all have an ideal situation in our head, but I like that Beane at least knows that the draft and FA are very much connected and that depending on how FA fairs affects how a team approaches any draft. While I would love to see both Paradis and Saffold on our OL next year, the chances of us landing even one of them are unlikely. And if both Little and Williams are off the board by the time we pick, we may have very different options available to address our OL needs. I think it's this scenario that Beane may use to justify spending as much as he might in FA. Beane clearly knows the needs of the team, but that doesn't mean that he'll be able to address everything no matter the priority. Case example is this past offseason - even with limited resources we offered John Brown an FA deal which was refused, and Beane attempted signings of WRs from other teams all while we thought the position was being ignored.

Haven't done enough digging on this, but I honestly wonder the number of QBs injured this year versus previous years...if the trend continues, there's plenty of evidence that these new rule changes may not do anything to affect injuries to the QB.

I thought the exact same thing when I saw it in game! Just couldn't remember the opponent - thanks for that. Much better throw and placement.

I do wonder how much of this is skewed by the number of snaps he's taken versus every other QB, and would like to see total pressures as a number instead of a percentage. But no argument that our OLine is deficient and needs much in the way of help.

Good points - the one thing I realized I noticed more yesterday than in his previous games was the number of "waffle" throws he had that weren't forced by pressure. It's only an eye test, but I noticed there were throws where he would waffle and either short the pass or miss inaccurately. Some of these came on the run, but a good number were either from a set position following a scramble, or even just moving about the pocket and throwing from a set position (some times with pressure looming or within reach). The reason I mention it is I recall Daboll and the coaches saying that one of the things they were working on with Allen was his finesse as his full cannon isn't needed all the time. What I wonder is if this is Allen attempting to over-correct or attempt a more finessed throw, resulting in a more waffled pass. In all honesty, I can't tell if what I saw yesterday was just me, a result of him attempting to correct what the coaches identified. Either way the inconsistencies with sprial throws when not pressured seemed odd to me, and certainly contributory to his accuracy. Especially on certain throws like with Zay in the back of the endzone throwing behind him - took potential points off the board there. I don't think this deserves a thread, but did anyone else notice this as well and have similar/different takes?

In case you were wondering, to force Vermeil and Harbuagh out of ST, Vermeil was offense at one point in his career as Harbaugh was defense. So the 10/10 split over the last 20 years holds true. This might just be me, but I feel like most of the people dying for an offensive coach really just want to see a better offense period. And who might not take into account the many different organizational dynamics that are currently employed across the league that logically disprove the advantage of one HC over the other based upon background experience.

They definitely didn't early in the season, but in the past three weeks, our WRs have done a markedly better job of creating separation since we've injected speed into the corps with mckenzie and foster. You also saw a commitment to a PA scheme base with Allen and a three level passing concept. One could even argue that the PA rollout/bootlegs with three level passing don't provide receivers much in the way of separation as all of their routes eventually need to work over to one-half of the field at different levels of the defense. While I'm happy we have Allen and do like the overall progress he's demonstrated, there's still more unknowns than knowns regarding Allen's capacity to handle reads - on one hand it's a lot to ask a rookie to read a defense pre-snap, turn his back to fake a handoff, and turn around and re-read given the pre-snap look and what's unfolded since. That's not easy to do yet Allen seems to handle it well. However, what it also does is allow him to hold on to the ball longer to address these plays, that often end up as half-field reads which are much easier for a rookie to make. So based upon that dichotomy, it's hard to tell where he's developing the most from a fan perspective. To your point, I would love to get this kid a real set of passing catching receivers, tight end included, to see what he's really made of and hopefully accelerate his development as well.

Just fact-checking but when did John Fox win? Kubiak was HC of the broncos and Fox lost to Belly in the SB when he was with the Panthers. Tom Coughlin was always an offensive coach? I'm just confused where you're getting these facts. Coughlin was an OC at cuse, WR and QB coach exclusively until he became HC. I definitely don't disagree with your point on defensive v. offensive minded HCs being successful in the least - but there's better evidence to provide to this outside of claiming 14 of the last 20 winners were coached by a defensive coach.

So this is just blatantly false. Another way of saying this is 5 different coaches won the SB in the past 20 years that are defensively-minded. Only 9 have been won by a team with a defensive minded HC at the time. To break it down, of those 9, 5 were Belly in NE with Tom Brady, so skews that one just a bit. The others were Dungy, Cowher, Tomlin, and Carroll. I also don't know how you counted coaches with an ST background, but the balance is there. I'm so tired of these offensive v. defensive minded HCs affecting how things go. There's no statistical proof one way or the other. GREAT HC's compensate for any lack of knowledge on the other side of the ball with exceptional coordinators and assistants. These can be identified by the coach, but having a good GM and FO capable of identifying these individuals is equally important as they are the ones that make the hire. Not to mention so much more goes into winning an SB than whatever defensive/offensive school the coach is from.

It's not so much the threat as much as it is the defensive scheme and assignments. No one is arguing you don't have to account for Shady or Gurley, but why PA is more effective here is also due to formations. The Rams almost always use tight formations despite how many people think they operate primarily on the spread offense in both their run and passing game - especially with mesh concepts which is the Rams primary man/match coverage breaker. Not to mention, pretty sure I saw Ivory out there on the PA playcalls as much as Shady. As a defense, you have to account for the back in the backfield no matter who it is. Yes, Gurley may demand more attention than other backs, but it's rare a defense will still assign a double team assignment to him on plays where he's in the backfield. But on each play the LB has assignments for if the play is a handoff and if the play is a pass, no matter whose name is on the back of the jersey. The reason play action is so effective is because it keeps LBs close to the line of scrimmage allowing receivers to get a jump on the delayed coverage and run their routes. It also delays most blitzes as rushers have to account for the potential of a handoff. If you watch the all-22 or cover1 reviews, you'll see how this was effectively used and Jax did not respond to in terms of in-game adjustments, and still honored both Ivory and Shady. Match coverage can be very effective in terms of combating PA, much more so than simple LB discipline. The Jax LBs never really bit on the PA in the second half, but still had to honor the run and stand their ground in case there was a handoff. You're not wrong that having someone like Gurley or Shady helps, but the success of PA is not predicated on having an elite RB, if anything, you need the OL to be able to handle the pass rush more so.

It's all he can live on at the moment, I just hope it isn't all he ends up being able to do though. One thing too much play action can do is create a habit of holding on to the ball for too long waiting for deep routes to develop. He made definitive strides on Sunday in terms of staying within and moving about the pocket and completing/attempting throws within the 3-5 second window. Nitpicking, but even on that throw to Foster in the article, I want to see him get that ball out quicker as he doesn't begin his throwing motion until Foster has already stopped. Thankfully his velocity and touch on that throw counteracted the later timing and all was well. But especially for those windowed throws, I would like to see him hit the timing more quickly.

Not sure if this was the Q1 "win" play you mention, but I wouldn't count this toward a loss or even a win per say: On the one delayed rush from either Smith or Jack up the A gap on a mesh concept play where KB was open coming across the middle, Allen stares down the rushing LB missing an open KB that if he connects likely picks up the first. I believe he side steps the rusher and tucks and runs fora positive gain on this play. While the end result was certainly positive yardage, the goal here is to get his eyes off the rusher to identify the open receiver the blitzing LB just left open through the short middle zone. There will always be plays where he needs to tuck and run, but I'd much prefer he demonstrate this progress before saying he can handle the blitz/rush. That being said, overall it was a much better performance in this regard than in his previous starts for sure.

I'm going to come out with a likely unpopular opinion that I don't mean to be negative on Allen at all: in all honesty, I don't like either throw from the perspective of getting Allen to the franchise QB level we want. I'm going to put this disclaimer up front before people stop reading here and I will simply say this: Allen showed more on Sunday to justify his upside than any game before this season. And while he still has plenty to work on, we may be able to use the play action to develop him much like the Steelers did with Big Ben. I just hope it doesn't become the only thing he can execute well. Now for the constructive critiicisms: Bomb to Foster: like Joe Licata said, it was just a wow play. As a play and result, no one can dislike that. But from a "franchise QB" perspective, there are a few things that are off about this. His stride foot is completely off-line as are his shoulders making the throw all arm. While the ball some how miraculously made it there, I'd like to see him still get the accurate stride and quick throw out. I LOVE the pocket slide up to create the extra time for routes to develop, but at the same time think he could've started his throwing motion much earlier in the route, even after he started to slide. I'm still at a loss for how the ball made it there, and I don't want to say it was Campbell preventing him from following through that allowed for the throw to lead Foster to the right, as he may have very well hit the window if he did follow through. But from what ended up happening, it's hard to tell if that hit from the front affected his accuracy in a miraculous way. Both good and bad can come from this play in terms of development and growing from it. But no doubt a helluva play from a raw rookie talent. PAP to Foster in a gap in the zone coverage: I'm a little more down on this play than the bomb for similar reasons that may seem like nitpicking, but are concerns for Allen's development. The pros: stays in the pocket, checks the safety, looks off to the right keeping the safety planted, looks back and fires to Foster in the window with velocity and touch. The cons: held onto the ball too long even for PAP, was later than he should have been on the timing to Foster and made up for it with his velocity and touch, again footwork issues. So the play action thing - again, it's a great tool for him to develop within, but my concern is that it will only further enforce his already bad habit of holding onto the ball for too long. I'm by no means claiming this will happen, but just putting forth a concern. Especially on this throw, he doesn't even begin his motion until Foster has already planted and stopped. While his velocity and touch makes up for it on this play, he needs to have the ball out just before Foster stops at the top of his route. You beat zone with timing AND accuracy. Not just arm strength. A late, hard yet accurate throw still has more chances of being picked than a well-timed, accurate throw with lesser velocity. All in all I'm for his upside and can't wait for the rest of the season watching him develop. I just hope for the best and not the worst like everyone else, but I'm far from convinced given how much he has to develop. I guess my point is, enjoy these plays and watching him develop, but don't point to these as evidence of him establishing himself as the "franchise qb" we've been waiting so desperately for. He's just not there yet, and no one should expect him to be there yet either.

Oh for sure, I meant more of a nightmare for defenses to scheme against. His ability to run only benefits him if he primarily relies on passing and can effectively hurt a defense there. When you effectively establish the pass, you leave more opportunity to run for big gains on third downs like he did Sunday. He made improvements in the pocket on Sunday but this is where i want to see him grow the most. Effectively addressing the OL this offseason should only help in this regard.

I'm curious to see how he continues to develop, but also how Mayfield handles this transition phase as he seems to be coming around as well some how. Sammy and Rosen are still big question marks and one year is too soon. But I'll take Allen's upside.

He definitely does for his size - and I love that he's not afraid to tuck it and run, creates crazy scheming issues for opposing defenses. Just hope he doesn't catch the injury bug doing it. I'd still like to see him develop in his other key areas - but not down on him by any means.

I agree, though I wonder how much of that is still because he's a rookie with potential and that's what we get excited for, and how much of it is just him playing the position making us feel that way. Either way, our receivers lose that much more from their gas tanks every time he scrambles...it's fine to have a QB that can extend plays, but when you literally live off of scrambling on the majority of passing downs, that means your receivers are running broken routes for that much longer as well. Come the third and fourth quarter when you need separation outside the numbers and on deep middle routes, it won't be there. You want to have confidence in your QB to execute the game plan, not the broken game plan because you held the ball for too long. No one minds Allen scrambling to extend plays as long as he also completes the passes and plays 3-5 seconds after the snap. While he did do better in this regard, you also see him staring down the rush and missing open receivers - a la KB was open on a mesh route while Allen focused on Smith/Jack blitzing.

Not trying to post this to be a negative nancy, but we all know he still has plenty to work on. We very well could have won that game 35+ to 21. You also saw him be given a playbook with which he is most familiar: play action and jet sweep. Make no mistake, he still has many packages to learn and feel comfortable under when he can't hide behind play action developing deep routes and needing to identify timed windows and hit them (which I believe he can do eventually). He progressed but you still could see issues with footwork, timing, reads, and yes the few inaccurate throws. He did better at not staring down the rush, but there were a few plays that he stared down the blitzing LB instead of the open receiver. It's not nitpicking to say he still has much to improve upon, but what we saw Sunday should not make anyone more worried or skeptical than they are now and should really only serve as evidence to rookie progression in the right direction. I really want to see him work on his footwork and reads/timing this year - to see any progress in this regard would say a lot about how quickly he is synthesizing and expanding the playbook while also having the game slow down for him.

Don't think this thread discredits that absolute need - just think this is more topically specific to the wide receiver position. I could be wrong though. Even so, it'll be hard to find someone on here who doesn't think the OL needs to be addressed.