Campy

I won't pretend to know a lot about a lot, but I do know a little about history. EDIT: I guess I should have disclosed that last semester I wrote a paper for a Poli Sci class that involved the seperation of church and state. And yes, I recieved an 'A'

Where's that little FU emoticom when you need it?

Sorry I overlooked this. Many of the quotes are in personnal letters written by their own hand. Thomas Paine's was from The Age of Reason, a pamphlet similar to his Common Sense which was used to galvanize the colonies and make them join a rebellion. Probably the most damning quote is the one from John Adams. Unlike governments of the past, the founding fathers set up a government divorced from religion. The establishment of a secular government did not require a reflection to themselves about its origin; they knew this as an unspoken given. However, as the U.S. delved into international affairs, few foreign nations knew about the intentions of America. For this reason, an insight from at a little known but legal document written in the late 1700s explicitly reveals the secular nature of the United States to a foreign nation. Officially called the "Treaty of peace and friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli, of Barbary," most refer to it as simply the Treaty of Tripoli. Article XI states, "As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." The document was written by Adams and unanimously carried in Congress with no debate. It is also significant to know that the US Constitution requires that any agreement, accord, or treaty entered into and approved by Congress becomes the law of the land. The argument could be made that federal law prohibits Americans from laying claim to living in a "Christian nation." This whole Christian nation thingy is a myth. Period, end of story.

It's number widely accepted by historians based on conservative estimates of the population and church tithing records. I'd like to post a link, but it's from a text book (I'm a History major).

Not a founding father, but he did institute the inherently corrupt Spoils System (political cronyism) that is still with us today. Yup, AJ's a real winner alright. But he did claim to be outwardly Christian even though his actions, both in the military and in the White House didn't demonstrate it. These quotes indicates that they appreciate the power of religious fervor in influencing the lemm, er, populace, to a specific political agenda. You're right, it doesn't. Believing in God does not make one a Christian. Google "Deism." Ask a Jew if he believes in God. Then ask that Jew if he is a Christian.

It might be, but it looks more like a Twin Fair reject to me.

They brought him in because he had a solid (not spectacular) career as a receiving TE. Chances are pretty good that they brought him in to receive, no? Because Tommy Maddox was unable to hit him doesn't mean that he wasn't part of the gameplan.

I guess our friend DeeRay never saw Jay (try to) block.

A rare throwback? To what? High School? That sure as hell isn't a Bills jersey.

I have a good friend who hates DB now, he claims DB somehow sabotaged the team. I don't just don't get it though. His play can be debated, but he was a class act that had his job handed to a virtual rookie who ended up being benched after 4 games. From where I sit it looks like he got pissed on and merely pissed back.

I do. They go great with pickle juice plus they only take 36 minutes to make (if you cook it right).

Sweet Mother of Jesus yes!

Remember, he re-did his deal in good faith (twice I think, once for sure), and he was sent packing because he said he didn't want to have the #1 spot handed to JP without the chance to compete for it - I'd be angry too. Frankly, I think he deserved better than what he got in Bflo. I didn't read as much into those comments as you did, I guess.

Ignoring the idiocy.

LAX for sure, add some AHL, Hockey East & WCHA and I'm watching.

The older I get, the smarter my father was. He once told me "Common sense ain't so common anymore."

The only people I recall that said Bledsoe "quit" on the team were 3 or 4 negative-nancies at TSW - hardly a quorum for "conventional wisdom." While some may like his play more than others, the reality is that DB has given Bills fans no reason to hate him or wish him ill in Dallas. Those that do are being irrational IMO.

Yup. Let's put in a svelte 6'2" 200 lb DT. That'll really show 'em, won't it. If you knew the man maybe I'd buy that, but you don't, so I can't. You mean like the way he ignored other offers for more money to come to Buffalo a few years ago? Critique his play and we can debate it, otherwise you're just showing your arse.

Team = 53 guys. How would the calibre of talent surrounding a single player the fault/responsibility of that player? Is Manning part of a great team? If so, should he get the credit for being the QB on that team, or should Poilian get the credit for bringing the talent in? I appreciate that you have some axe to grind with Bledsoe, that's cool. I'm just not so sure you're doing a very good job of justifying it.

TE's aren't "considered alot" by a team whose coach was an NFL TE? Okey-dokey. The TEs go out into patterns, but because the QB can't/doesn't throw them the ball, it's the coaches' fault? Ever consider that if Everett comes back and is as good as billed that he might have an easier time of getting open than our current TEs do, or is it just easier to rip on the coaching? BTW: Mark Campbell had 4 receptions for 42 yds Sunday. Those don't sound like the receiving numbers of a TE in an offense where the TEs aren't "considered."

That one got me.

Keep in mind that I consider myself a Christian, but to claim this country was founded as a Christian nation is not entirely accurate. This nation was ofunded by as many Deists as it was by Christians. Remember, merely believing in God does not make a person a Christian. The Bible says that "the fool says in his heart, there is no God." Our founding fathers were certainly not fools. But the Bible also says "You say you believe in God. Good. The demons also believe and tremble." Believing in God is insufficient evidence for demonstrating either Christian principles or that a person is a Christian. To wit: “Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. I had hoped that liberal and enlightened thought would have reconciled the Christians so that their religious fights would not endanger the peace of Society.” - George Washington “The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.” - John Adams "I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in this particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth" - Thomas Jefferson, author of the Jeffersonian Bible, which is devoid of any miracles or healings and ends with Jesus' burial. "The establishment of a Christian chaplainship to Congress is a palpable violation of equal rights, as well as of Constitutional principles." - James Madison "As to Jesus of Nazareth, I have some doubts as to his Divinity." - Ben Franklin "Religion, which should most distinguish us from beasts, and ought most particularly to elevate us, as rational creatures, above brutes, is that wherein men often appear most irrational, and more senseless than beasts themselves.” - John Locke "It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible." - Thomas Paine The founding fathers were a reflection of the American population. Having escaped from the state-established religions of Europe, only 7% of the people in the 13 colonies belonged to a church when the Declaration of Independence was signed. Unlike you, I'm a tolerant Christian. I won't implore you to leave the country if you don't like the reality that the US was not founded as a Christian nation.

No, I don't. As I said, it's a basic tenent of human compassion which also happens to be taught in all of the world's religions. The Golden Rule stems from Hammurabi's Code, a set of laws that came from the ruler of Babylon: "If a man knock out the teeth of his equal, his teeth shall be knocked out," ie, do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

You'd have a great point if it were anywhere close to accurate. Aside from the fact that things like the Golden Rule should be taught at home - long before a kid enters a school. It's not exclusively a Christian teaching, in fact, it's been around longer than there was Christianity. It's a main part of all major religions including, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Confucianism. It was also a major component of Taoism and Zoroastrianism which dates back to 650 BCE. Creationism, as it is being debated via ID, is specific to the Judeo/Christian religion, not a basic tenent of human compassion which also happens to be taught by all of the world's religions. Damn, I knew that Religions of the World class would pay off one day...

Beer can be good for you? Maybe there is something to that whole Intelligent Design thingy afterall...