What a Tuel

? Would you rather switch places? (If we had our 1st rounder)

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_td_career.htm These records are demonstrative that these types of QB's only come along once in a blue moon. And we wonder why so many teams strike out at QB so much. These types are rare.

Benjamin went at #28 of the 1st round. Ebron went at #10. How do you figure? The only for sure thing is that they said they would've went with Ebron. I'm still waiting for a scenario next year that we get this "top qb talent" who happens to be in this draft, and isn't already gone in the top ten picks. As of right now the Jets (who may stick with Geno, but who knows), Tennessee (who may stick with Mettenberger, but who knows), Tampa (who may stick with Glennon/McCown, but who knows), St. Louis (who may stick with Davis/Bradford, but who knows) all have QB problems, and will likely draft ahead of our (the browns) 1st round pick this year. I think the fact that people are so upset about giving up our 1st next year are showing their eternal optimism that we draft a stud QB like Luck who sweeps us to relevance. More often than not, it doesn't happen like that. Especially in recent years.

He was the (Edit 1st pick) 2nd pick of the 2nd round. Mind boggling, but I guess he wasn't too phenomenal in San Diego for those first few years, so there's that. He really took off when he went to NO, just fit better there I guess.

Brady - We will just get him with our 6th. Brees - We will just get him with our 2nd Wilson - We will just get him with our 3rd Romo - We will just get him in free agency Foles - We will just get him with our 3rd Dalton - We will just get him with our 2nd Kaepernick - We will just get him with our 2nd We should easily be able to stockpile franchise QBs without a single first round pick! This is too easy! I should be a GM! We will just ignore the hordes of QB's drafted in the later rounds that haven't been franchise QBs. Edit: On a side note, what did people see in Brees that pushed him to the second? His college highlights look phenomenal.

I said the same thing on that pass when watching it live, Watkins not catching (edit deflecting it)it means pick and game over. I am glad we have a receiver who is good enough to handle those situations. I know this isn't the thread for it, and I know our defense only allowed 16 points, but our Defense didn't seem very good in the game against a 3rd string running back, and a rookie QB. Just my opinion though.

Did you even read my posts? Geez.

We are obviously traumatized by past failures at QB, but we clearly haven't seen EJ Manuel's ceiling yet. If you want to wait for it, or not, that is your opinion. Their levels of play were not equal, which is why Orton gives us a better chance to win and I am ok with sitting Manuel for the time being, but could the things that are affecting our veteran's QB play, possibly of been affecting our young QB's play? My point is probably.

Fresh QB that obviously needs development. We all knew that going in, but 250 yards isn't his ceiling. Unless you are in the camp that believes QB's are who they are and can't improve/develop. Kyle Orton's Rookie Season he had one 200 yard game (the rest less than 200), 9 tds and 13 ints EJ Manuel's first 14 games he had six 200 yard games (the rest less than 200), 16 tds and 12 ints

Fred Jackson has had one 1,000 yard season. (Same as Spiller for whoever is counting). So I hope we can say that measurement should be thrown out, especially on a shared carry team. (but it won't ) Also he has a 4+ yard average per carry on every single year except 3.8 in his rookie year. He has averaged 62.2 yards a game in 2013, and 77.8 in 2012. Year 1 CJ Spiller had 74 carries across the whole season, and 107 in year 2. But sure, let's put those seasons on him and complain he didn't average 13.5 yards a carry to make a 1,000 yard season in year 1, and a more manageable 9.34 yards a carry for a 1,000 yard season in year 2. Year 3 he gets 207 carries and gets 1,244 yards. So what changed in year 4 and 5? Coaches? Completely replaced. QB? Replaced 4-5 times. Offensive line? 60% changed, and replaced. But no, none of those could possibly impact our run game the least. Not even mentioning the guy was injured in Year 4, but shhh we aren't allowed to use legitimate injuries as legitimate reasoning as to why a player isn't performing as expected. I bet you think he has a glass collarbone now too Lastly, you know he doesn't get the goal line carries, so quit it with the TDs. Oh and I will look forward to your youtube video detailing how Spiller missed all of those gaping holes. Should be easy right? The amount of time you spend bashing him, you could whip one up for all of us naysayers in no time, and shut us up for good.

I agree that the line is a huge part of why both our passing game, and running game aren't doing as well as they should be. I can't speak for everyone else, but I criticize Orton because these excuses weren't good enough for our fresh QB Manuel, so why are they good enough for our veteran backup? I'm all for sitting Manuel until he is ready, but let's not pretend Orton is some undiscovered QB, and we found a diamond in the rough. We have been down that road before on several occasions.

Now Spiller's got five years as a starter. I wonder what is different between our RB's being 2nd in the league on rushing last year, and 22nd this year? I guess both of our RB's forgot how to run, and it has nothing to do with the shifting of nearly the entirety of our O-line. I know you have something against Spiller, but I would hope you could at least agree running him up the middle is not utilizing his skill set properly. This is absurd. Spiller does not suck for us. Hackett sucks for Spiller.

You didn't get the humor in that first one. You point to Orton as a good QB based on his prior years of experience, and we can't look at his past two games as an indicator. But then Manuel who doesn't have those years of experience, and has only a limited time as a professional football player, and you know right from the start, he shouldn't be an NFL QB. Like I said in previous posts, I am all for EJ learning from the bench, but what a waste if they ditch him. As for the second question, that seems like it was the point. Feel free to clarify, but you asked "Would you sit Stafford for Manuel?" and then listed out that Orton's stats are comparable to Staffords over the last two games. Which sounds to me like you are trying to correlate Stafford and Orton as of the same quality.

Did you really just play the "you don't know because you've only seen 2 games with Orton" card? Who knows what is going on right now with Stafford, but are you really saying "Stafford, a big name QB is playing crappy, and on the same level as Orton! So in reality we are benching Manuel for a Stafford-like QB!!"

When someone takes on the attributes of a flawed argument, they are pointing out the hypocrisy of the people toting that brand of argument. They are usually poking holes in the argument itself, rather than partaking in it realistically. Case in point is when I mentioned Davis's poor stats. I wasn't bashing him, I was pointing out that he had EJ Manuel like stats, and you guys think he is the Rams franchise QB. I guess he passes the eye test. I have no doubt that if Austin Davis was here, and went 1-4 we would be in the same predicament. Suddenly his flaws would become apparent, and supposedly he will never get any better than he is displaying right now. I am all for the Rams developing Austin Davis, he looks like a good prospect. I am also all for the Bills developing Manuel, whether it's on the bench or starting, he is not a lost cause.

Right now is the key word. Manuel has much more upside than Orton, but you have the same type people on your side saying Manuel will never be or should never be an NFL QB.

That's the problem. No one is saying he is the franchise QB. No one will let him develop either. They point to cases like Austin Davis and say "why can't we have that?" but are willfully ignorant of all the flaws of those QB's that we would be freaking out over. Until we get them that is. Then they are glaring flaws that the player could never recover from. Like I said, I am all for Manuel learning from the bench for now, while Orton does what he can, but you are all impatiently putting nearly 14 years of frustration on our young QB, and expecting some sort of magic pill solution. Which ushers in the "the guy on the bench, the guy on the bench!" hysteria. As for the pick six, I believe Orton fumbled and threw a pick which let the game against the Patriots get out of hand. But oh I forgot, those don't count against the QB's we are rooting for.

It's just that easy huh? What about if Watkins catches those drops he had in Houston?

With Manuel we are 2-2, and with Orton we are 1-1. You can try and revise history all you want, but Manuel did not play against Detroit and New England, and Orton did not play against our first 4 opponents. You can't attribute wins/losses for games a QB has not played, or else you should go to Vegas, and place some bets on some obvious winners. Feel free to share some of the wealth. Edit: Also Austin Davis and EJ Manuel are tied with 13 - 20+ yard catches (Not counting this week).

Looks like the OP got caught in the hype of the 1st half. 21/42 236 yards and 1 td 1 int (pick six) Let the acceptable excuses for his performance begin.

What was his issue this time? He is headed for half of the receptions and a third of the TD's as last year (EDIT: 2012). We aren't using him. Part of it is our QB problem. If this was some type of punishment from Marrone, then do it on a less important game, like a non conference, non division home game such as the Vikings next week. We needed Williams out there yesterday.

And it begins again. The demonizing of our talent because we don't want to admit that we as a team, aren't making them look good. Just look at our QB situation and our OC situation, and you tell me if you were a WR would you want to play for us?

And here is where we begin telling ourselves that we are too good for good players.

Not at all. They most definitely need a white knight to come to their rescue because they are too stupid to make correct life decisions like real adults. /sarcasm

I've never been to Green Bay so I'll take your word for it. That said, Ralph Wilson Stadium isn't Lambeau for a multitude of reasons. They also spent nearly $400 million (inflation) renovating it in 2000. Pegula won't spend near that much when he could build a new one near the Sabres in downtown.