FireChan

What?

Well then, if you don't wish to talk about Orton, I'd advise not posting in the "Orton retirement" thread. You know, it just makes sense.

I think we're all aware of your opinion, thanks.

That's only if you look at the issue in a vacuum. Having the best QB on the roster avoid injury is fine. EJ sacrificed his body for a little more of a positive play and it set this franchise back a year, if not more. Listen, I love guys who are tough as nails and put their bodies on the line for the team. I do. But it's not the end-all be-all. Also, And let's not forget the countless plays in which Orton just crumbled in the pocket and pretty much just fell down without standing tall and firing. Sure, you can point to a few times where he took a shot, but again, his positive plays didn't outweigh his negative, which is why he gets (rightfully) blasted. Countless? Really? I'd like you to show me a game where Orton's negative plays outweighed his positives. There may be one, but no more than that. The guy was at the helm for 9 wins, don't forget that. Just because he threw 3 balls in the dirt doesn't negate his 300 yards and 20 other completions.

Okay, I'll consider the immigrant part irrelevant then. What was the fatality rate of Ebola in the US? I honestly don't remember. I don't suggest the implementation of an actual quarantine, merely the threat. You can consider that the domestic fatality rate makes this issue irrelevant, but when I consider the children that die due to someone's ignorance, something should be done. Just because nothing is being done now doesn't make it right. I'm sure there are punishments for causing things with a domestic fatality rate lower than .3%. I'm actually looking right now, so I'll get back to that.

That's not the point. It's not a bad thing for Brady to throw it away or curl into a ball. Ever. You know why? Because he's the best player on their team in the mot important position, and him staying healthy is of the utmost benefit to his team. Now, with Orton, the benefit is less, because he's not really good, but it is there. Assuming Orton was the best QB on the roster (I strongly believe he was), Orton avoiding injury helps the Bills. Period. End of story. His motivation does not matter (and we'll never know his motivation). The end result is the same. As an addendum, Orton took many hits over the season. Because there was one that he shied away from, when he had little to no chance of getting the first, does not mean you can paint him as kitty. He got crushed hanging in the pocket to make a throw quite often. Besides. we all saw how Fitzy got treated when he laid out for his team cause he sucked. He broke his ribs, stunk, and many turned on him. I'd rather have Orton slide short than break something and be even worse or need to throw EJ back out there.

Seeing as it's what I'm talking about, it is relevant. The right to travel is already infringed upon with the requirement for passports and the like. What's one more infringement for the protection of the health of our citizens? What do I do with the US citizens already here? I levy fines and quarantine those who do not get vaccinated. I see little to no difference between the infringing of natural rights to protect the public from communicable disease outbreaks under quarantine and infringing to protect the public from those who are not vaccinated. In fact, the only difference is that one group is solely composed of idiots who are being infringed upon due to their own stupidity and/or ignorance. Knowing more about you, I fear you're against quarantine as well, so I realize the comparison may be lost on you.

It's in my blood.

It's because you're painting his actions as if they happened to your family member. Which is a big no-no for objectivity.

Forcing immigrants to get vaccinated. You don't have a right to live in the US. The US doesn't need to infringe on your right to exist, just your privilege to exist here.

Immigrating to the US and living here is not a "right."

I didn't like it either. But Brady does the same thing because he knows that extra first down is not worth him getting hurt, which is a much bigger blow to the team. KO tries to get it and gets hurt, we're done in the playoff hunt anyway.

On key conversions? It wasn't during the final two minutes. And yes, he has. In fact, sometimes, other than even bothering to try to run for it, he just chucks it into the dirt or out of bounds. Is that preferable?

Tom Brady has done the same thing many times. He just won his fourth Super Bowl.

Name some available QB's better than Orton.

I think it was more that Stevie came up small in big moments.

We could do worse than Orton.

Okay, so you say that we are "convinced" to do things by our government by the installment of consequences, correct? At least, in the driving analogy, fines and punishments for driving on the correct side. Do you take moral offense to that? If not, why can't we do the same for vaccination. We don't need to force folks to be vaccinated, just write a law that says if you don't, you get fines/deported/jailed etc. Would that be okay?

The truly sad part is that kids growing up in this generation are only going to remember being "at war" with Muslim groups their entire lives. It's easy to paint a group with a broad brush if you grow up with it all around you.

I'm trying to figure out your beliefs. I'd argue a choice between death and submission is not a choice at all. Never saw the fatality rate post.

More playoff appearances than EJ.

Yeah but he's a QB. He made it to the NFC Championship game last time he had this good of a defense. And his offensive weapons were bad that year. Great D + Cutler + Sammy/Marshall/Woods/Brown/Fred/Dixon? Yes please.

I think you could take Cutler and Marshall off the Bears hands for a pretty good deal if they were packaged.

So you're okay with that? I mean, they're offering a choice. No violation of rights there. Making a choice at gunpoint is preferable to forced vaccinations. So why don't we do that?

So, let's say the government took you a gunpoint and said, "Vaccinate or we shoot you." Are you being convinced or forced? I mean, you can still make a choice, even if you die. The fact that the consequences are too heavy to consider shows that it is working. Thank goodness we cleared that up.