Rocky Landing

Of all the standard arguments against changing the name, the "false comparison argument" strikes me as the most bizarre. It is so spurious, that it is almost difficult to argue-- one finds themselves typing statements that seem so painfully obvious, that you have to scratch your head, and wonder why anyone should have to bother. So, here goes: Comparing the moniker, "redskin," to other terms such as the NAACP, and the State of Oklahoma is not a valid argument against changing the name of the Washington Redskins, because the sky is blue, water is wet, life is short, death is long, and THEY ARE NOT OFFENSIVE TERMS.

I suspect that the bidding process will be favored towards those who can prove a commitment to keeping the team in Buffalo, and that will scare away some investors-- even some who would ultimately prefer to keep the team in Buffalo. The terms of the Non-Relocation Agreement will allow certain local entities, even politicians, who would otherwise not have influence, to exert pressure on potential bidders in this regard. This, combined with the uncertainties of the future stadium, the current state of RW Stadium, and the tepid regional economy will depress the sale price. $950 million.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/report-redskins-name-only-offensive-if-you-think-a,33449/

I believe that "thoroughly disproven" is an overstatement and misrepresentative of Goddard's work. Certainly, his statements regarding scalps are in dispute, but that represents a small portion of his study, which includes well researched, and documented evidence of his history of the word. Be that as it may, by Goddard's account, regardless of the word's origin, the term had become disparaging by the early 1800s at the latest- predating the naming of the team by over 100 years. It should also be understood that Redskin press releases have often been knowingly misleading regarding the origin of the team's name, as well as the attitudes of George Preston Marshall, and supposed support from Native American communities. In my mind, lying about your own organization's history in an attempt to seize some moral high ground excludes you from that high ground.

Everyone knows our D is good, and from all accounts, improved from last season. So, for this team, I'd feel pretty good if the offense were winning.

Well, clearly that depends on what offends thee: racial slurs, or political correctness?

That's an interesting poll. I just checked it out on the ESPN site. It certainly doesn't change my mind in the slightest, though. I have no desire to jump on that bandwagon.

Oh, Kellyto83TD, you're always good for a laugh!

Conspiracy!!!

Judging from past Washington Skins' press releases on the subject of their name, I wouldn't assume they are definitive.

Care to make a wager on that?

Are you really trying to bait me into drawing a false comparison to the N-word by drawing your own false comparison to the N-word? I expect more from you.

Who says I'm protesting anything? We're debating here. And, if there was a team called the Hoboken Ni**ers, with a long history of "honoring African Americans," we'd probably be in agreement that it should be changed.

This has been an argument against a name change: are there enough Native Americans offended to warrant a name change, and how many is enough? Well, the National Congress of American Indians is, by far, the largest, oldest, and most recognized Native American organization there is. Their membership includes several hundred tribes. If they can't represent Native American issues, then who, on God's green earth, can? Here's a link to their website, for anyone who cares: http://www.ncai.org

I would have agreed with you, until I saw that this ad was appearing on prime time during an NBA final. I'm not sure if they aired the entire two minute spot (that's a long commercial!) or if was paired down to a minute, or 30 seconds, but regardless, the NCAI spent a significant amount of money. I doubt they're going to back off.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/letter-from-red-cloud-indian-school-on-the-washington-redskins-name/2013/10/11/e24044ba-32bc-11e3-8627-c5d7de0a046b_story.html

But, $10.50 for onion rings???

Wow. This thread immediately evolved into an SJ dog pile.

That bill contained a total of 26 Remy Martins (including 14 doubles), 4 Crown Royals, 17 kamikazes, 4 rum runners, 5 old fashioned, 21 assorted bottles of cabernet, and ONE ICED TEA.

He has always struck me as a player whose performance would swing wildly according to his motivation. Maybe that's a polite way of saying that he isn't always professional? But, certainly, during his last season here, he wasn't playing with 100% effort. Beast Mode appeared with a winning season. For a guy like that, retiring after after a Super Bowl win might make sense. For him, the rest of his career would feel "down hill."

Fair enough, and a good starting point. I believe that if the Native American community were to effectively argue that the term, while having a benign origin, is nonetheless rooted in racism, negative stereotyping, and even genocide, that a name change would rise above the level of mere political correctness. I do believe that is the underlying point behind the NCAI ad.

If you're going to cut-and-paste from another website, you should at least use quotations. Be that as it may, there is a distinct level of intellectual dishonesty in your sources. I won't get onto your first post, because all of the points, including the spurious stats, have been covered in the previous pages. But this particular cut-and-paste (taken directly from a Dan Snyder press release) is an especially interesting one. For example, it neglects to mention that the late coach George Allen created the Red Cloud Athletic Fund. It also neglects to mention that the primary beneficiary of the fund, the Red Cloud Indian School, has denounced the name "Redskins," and (according to a letter they wrote to the Washington Post), has accused Snyder of misrepresenting their role in developing the logo. I love debate. I truly do. And, I despise plagiarism. Mindlessly cutting and pasting off a biased website and passing it off as your own debate makes my blood boil.

Maybe you should read through the last nine pages of this debate...

I asked this question of another poster (who was unwilling to answer), who seemed to hold a similar view in this debate: What level of negative connotation would "redskin" have to possess before a name change became a question of common decency, and not of political correctness?

I keep changing my mind, too. Still surprised that Houston is winning the worst poll.